Cousin Jim Bob Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chris B said: The idea that some people are reading the stories that women are sharing (and how many of them inspire other women to come forward and share stories about the same people) and deciding that the main thing that needs to change is anonymity for the men involved really is depressing. You're basically looking at this whole situation and going 'you know what? Women have too much power here. Something should be done.'.  The same thing happened with metoo. If you find yourself arguing "well these 100's of stories of women being raped, sexually assaulted, groomed from underage and physically and verbally abused is sad but I'm going to stand up for the poor wrestlers who maybe wrongly accused" please fucking don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamura Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-prosecution-england-wales-victims-court-cps-police-a8885961.html1.7% of reported rapes prosecuted in England and Wales according to figures released in 2019. Obviously the victims were lying in the other 98.3% of cases..... Edited June 21, 2020 by Tamura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) Also, on the back of Jonnys post, a not guilty verdict doesn’t mean a false allegation has been made. It means that is couldn’t be proven without a reasonable doubt. Edit - What @Tamura said. Edited June 21, 2020 by Keith Houchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted June 21, 2020 Moderators Share Posted June 21, 2020 Is it worth introducing the not proven verdict like in the Scottish courts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehoncho Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 29 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said: Not the point you utter fucking moron. No no & I get that, but .. Bowler?? Leveraging pressure like that?? Seriously?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehoncho Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, Jonny Vegas said: I would imagine that if anyone contacts the Police that generates some sort of a reference number so they can to identify that individual report or contact. This is standard operating procedure in all British police forces, & it feeds into the PNC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehoncho Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, PowerButchi said: Is it worth introducing the not proven verdict like in the Scottish courts? Lack of evidence, is how it's reported. As per the Cliff Richard allegations ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, PowerButchi said: Is it worth introducing the not proven verdict like in the Scottish courts? That’s not without its problems. In fact, there’s an ongoing push to scrap the not proven verdict here precisely to achieve more convictions in sexual assault/rape cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Vegas Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) . Edited June 24, 2020 by Jonny Vegas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted June 21, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, MPDTT said:   3 hours ago, MPDTT said: I'd be very uncomfortable with a shift away from presumed innocence - it moves the needle from being a democractic, liberal legal system to one that is more authoritarian No one is arguing for that are they? Correct me if I'm wrong and misunderstood but I've taken the main argument is we should develop a culture to not dismiss or undermine claims rather than change the nature or certainty of conviction? The argument isn't to start to say person X is guilty because of what person Y said but more that person Y isn't instantly assumed to be a lying tart who probably asked for it because lads will be lads. Edited June 21, 2020 by Tommy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, RedRooster said: That’s not without its problems. In fact, there’s an ongoing push to scrap the not proven verdict here precisely to achieve more convictions in sexual assault/rape cases. Another thing with low conviction rates with rape cases is how they are often plea bargained down, or advised to seek a lesser charge due to the higher chance of getting a conviction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted June 21, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, mikehoncho said: No no & I get that Reading through your posts I'm not sure that you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPDTT Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tommy! said:  No one is arguing for that are they? Correct me if I'm wrong and misunderstood but I've taken the main argument is we should develop a culture to not dismiss or undermine claims rather than change the nature or certainty of conviction? The argument isn't to start to say person X is guilty because of what person Y said but more that person Y isn't instantly assumed to be a lying tart who probably asked for it because lads will be lads. I was responding to a post 4 hours ago from Michael_3165, which suggested a change in the burden of proof.  And on your second point - I agree - there is a big difference between not dismissing allegations / treating them seriously and automatically assuming the accused is guilty as charged. But the burden must alwaye be on the accuser to prove it in a court of law....even though, regrettably, conviction rates are unbelievably low as a result. If anyone can come up with a way of increasing conviction rates without relaxing the burden of proof principle, I'd be all for it. Edited June 21, 2020 by MPDTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted June 21, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2020 It can be terribly difficult for a woman to come forward and report the crime in the first place, not to mention the treatment they sometimes get because of false claims, and defendants ostensibly getting away with it because of inconclusive evidence or, in a certain example, witnesses for the defence saying the victim enjoyed rough sex.. I have a friend who was raped, and when she tried to report it the offcer asked whether she had "buyer's remorse". It's a horrible thing. I really hope these incidents are investigated to the fullest. These people have done great work coming forward, the stigma surrounding things like this needs to be removed as while it wouldn't make people feel completely safe, it'd certainly make people feel safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehoncho Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said: Reading through your posts I'm not sure that you do. Well, you read it as you desire; the truth is that there are scummy cunts out there who wish to take advantage of those they are ultimately able to coerce & manipulate. Maybe Bowler is misunderstood, but I'd doubt that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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