elisarcabrera Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: No. They prosecute if there is evidence that a person committed the crime. In every instance they issue a crime number that the victims can give to insurance companies, thus their statement is believed as a default. A crime number is just a file opened on the case. It doesn't actually indicate a crime has been committed. It's probably the wrong term for that reference number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted June 21, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said: A crime number is just a file opened on the case. It doesn't actually indicate a crime has been committed. It's probably the wrong term for that reference number. So does one get opened for each claim of rape or sexual misconduct reported? Edited June 21, 2020 by Tommy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 At least reading through this topic and social media shows how difficult it is for women to come forward with this stuff considering the shit some blokes come out with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamicazze Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Chris B said: I'm not suggesting moving away from 'innocent until proven guilty' as a legal basis. But for a long time, I thought that was a perfect, pure maxim. And now I realise that it's horribly flawed, routinely lets down women, and is merely the best option as anything else would be even more flawed. Again, the point of #MeToo was that almost every woman you know has been sexually harrassed or assaulted to some degree. That it's absolutely endemic in our culture. What you find when women speak out about someone is that they're rarely the only ones. And that's to be encouraged. Also, this is not all or nothing. For the less extreme stories, letting other women openly know 'this guy is a creep' doesn't mean destroying their career. A lot of the time, it means people being wary and less trusting of them. It can also be an opportunity for them to cop on and learn and mature. Look at how Dan Harmon treated admitting his own sexual harrassment, for example.   I understand we are going through a woke era. Somethings are new and somethings have never been right. A list was released, and some of the ladies leading the movement said they didn't endorse the list and there were innocent people on there. Those people were still on the list and have been categorised with the others. I think we are actually agreeing here anyways, that the guilty parties should be prosecuted, creepy people should be known to others within the game, and innocent people shouldn't be dragged into it. Maybe just our thought process on the decisions is different. Either way we both want the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted June 21, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, kamicazze said: A list was released, and some of the ladies leading the movement said they didn't endorse the list and there were innocent people on there. Those people were still on the list and have been categorised with the others. Except that the people leading the movement have denied the list. So they haven't been categorised with the others, and a bunch of people (including those at the forefront of the movement) are making clear that this isn't about them. What is it you're looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCrapUsername Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020  Mad Man Manson knew the truth about Ligero. Shows how unaware some companies are though that PCW haven’t thought to take this down already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elisarcabrera Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 53 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Who do they prosecute? Police don’t prosecute. They collate their evidence and send it to the Crown Prosecution Service who will assess the evidence supplied and recommend whether the police should make an arrest or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Those speaking out aren't making anonymous accusations of rape. They're using their social media platform, from accounts they use professionally, to tell the world their experiences of assault, abuse and discrimination in wrestling. No one's hiding. They're taking back power from their abusers. Liars will be found out and will face those consequences. Many of those speaking the truth may need to live with the fact that justice won't get done, due to lack of evidence. But many will have been brave enough to stand up, drive out the offenders, and make a real difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamicazze Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 That mad man Manson video is bonkers. Either way they're on the list - and not everyone will have seen the denouncement. Looking for same thing as everyone I guess - proper justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPDTT Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Michael_3165 said: Sadly when it comes to proof it must be beyond reasonable doubt. That requires a fair degree of proof. I guess the Q is do you want innocent until proven guilty? That in itself gives the message we should only trust people alleging crimes when they have total proof. That's uncomfortable for me. A cornerstone of British law is the protecting of innocence & 'innocent until proven guilty' - and rightly so in my opinion. This harks back centuries to the "Blackstone's ratio" - all presumptive evidence of felony should be admitted cautiously, for the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer. And as much as I despise criminals in all forms, especially rapists and sex offenders, I'd be very uncomfortable with a shift away from presumed innocence - it moves the needle from being a democractic, liberal legal system to one that is more authoritarian. So wrestling with the issue of low conviction rates for sex crimes is very difficult - I want to see more justice done, but not at the expense of this pivotal aspect of our judicial system. Further, I recall many voices stating when Carl Beech was proven to be a liar (the man who falsely accused senior politicians of sexual abuse and murder), that the law should be changed to protect the anonymity of those suspected of serious crime (as well as accusers) until they are charged with any offence to protect reputations. Indeed this is a goal of the Falsely Accused Individuals for Reform (‘FAIR’) organisation. Then there is the use of social media - which we've seen is an incredible tool to bring about real change in the form of #MeToo and now #Speakingout, outing people like Harvey Weistein and Co and now the wrestlers who have allegedly behaved in such a disgusting (and in many cases illegal) manner. Yet I find the assumption of assumed guilt an incredibly difficult one, but when they are convicted of a crime - by all means throw the book at them!!! However I don't believe compromising on the burden of proof to secure more convictions is the way to go.    Edited June 21, 2020 by MPDTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted June 21, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, kamicazze said: That mad man Manson video is bonkers. Either way they're on the list - and not everyone will have seen the denouncement. Looking for same thing as everyone I guess - proper justice. They're on a discredited list. There's clear evidence it has been discredited. They're unlikely to see any consequences from that, and they have evidence they can point to to show it has been discredited. So what do you think should happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIDDUM_N_STYLE Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Bagga, what a little prick  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elisarcabrera Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, kamicazze said: That mad man Manson video is bonkers. Either way they're on the list - and not everyone will have seen the denouncement. Looking for same thing as everyone I guess - proper justice. Yes it’s crazy.the original youtube video is now locked as private Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Jim Bob Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Bagga is like those politicians who spend their whole lives campaigning against gay rights then one day get caught with a male prositutute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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