kamicazze Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Didn't know they did this. Seems a brilliant idea to me. Then you have 2 clear definitions of guilty, not guilty and not proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPDTT Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, kamicazze said: Didn't know they did this. Seems a brilliant idea to me. Then you have 2 clear definitions of guilty, not guilty and not proven. It really doesn't work in practice - its pretty much an aquittal in disguise. https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,the-only-difference-between-not-proven-and-not-guilty-is-the-spelling-why-c_14833.htm  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamicazze Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) I love that the movement is getting more and more of them speaking out. That it's giving them the courage to do so. They need to know they have support, which seems to be the case. At the same time we mustn't pick sides if there is doubt. I've read up a lot on psychology, and handled numerous investigations/disciplinaries within the workplace. My experience is to treat things as a blank canvas and never fill in the blanks yourself. That being said some of it is damning, when numerous people have a similar experience with one person there isn't much to question. Sometimes you just know there's no more, yet it still needs something. I remember dealing with a bad one where there were about 7 to 8 witness statements, and it was plainly obvious it was the case. I won't go into finer details for confidentiality, the result was the person was dismissed yet got it overturned on appeal for lack of evidence. Sometimes that side of it stinks. then I had another where once I'd investigated, everything turned out to be false. Edited June 21, 2020 by kamicazze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPDTT Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, kamicazze said: I love that the movement is getting more and more of them speaking out. That it's giving them the courage to do so. They need to know they have support, which seems to be the case. At the same time we mustn't pick sides if there is doubt. I've read up a lot on psychology, and handled numerous investigations/disciplinaries within the workplace. My experience is to treat things as a blank canvas and never fill in the blanks yourself. That being said some of it is damning, when numerous people have a similar experience with one person there isn't much to question. Sometimes you just know there's no more, yet it still needs something. I remember dealing with a bad one where there were about 7 to 8 witness statements, and it was plainly obvious it was the case. I won't go into finer details for confidentiality, the result was the person was dismissed yet got it overturned on appeal for lack of evidence. But in the workplace, you don't need to prove anything 'beyond reasonable doubt', you need 'reasonable belief', so the burden of proof is lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamicazze Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 ah yeah makes sense. it probably results in less work being done to find a definitive conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted June 21, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2020 Why don't you both go and make your own legal thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 4 hours ago, kamicazze said: I understand what your saying. Though we will only see portions from both sides. Hopefully the police have access to everything so they can make that absolute judgement. If you've watched 'when they see us on Netflix' it shows how bad a wrongful conviction can be. The village I'm originally from had a lady that made rape allegations against 2 locals. 2 years later she had reported rapes to the police 6 more times. On one of the occasions the person wasn't even with her. I am not saying this is the case here, though that person was suicidal at the time as everyone was talking about him. This was before social media so could be have been a whole lot worse. It took ages for the facts to be corrected on this when people realised she cried wolf, shit sticks. So yes for me it does have to be beyond reasonable doubt. And many of these cases from what I've read do seem to be beyond reasonable doubt. It'll be no good tweeting quotes about being kind, or stuff about truth if a tragedy happens. 3 out of all 4 suicides are men. The guilty ones probably couldn't care and their personality type will continue to portray themselves as innocent- yet the damage it will do to an innocent one who has done nothing wrong to have everything taken away maybe final.  You've just effectively done the 'I'm not racist but rant' , but against sexual assault and rape victims, dismissing people because 'women cry wolf' dont they? Incels out in force? Seriously! Go and volunteer with Victim Support or indeed any other organisation and you may find that what you 'believe' is absolutely horrendous. You may also want to revisit your causality and false equivalence as to try and victim blame because you knew this women once is abhorrent. The fastest growing number of suicide deaths is young women between 10 and 24. The reasons for that spike include endemic unreported sexual abuse as far as can be back tracked when they are known to services. Furthermore this situation has affected men, women, non binary and trans people, so you may want to give your Lawrence Fox style priveleged head a wobble.     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamicazze Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 oh my word. the whole privilege thing is coming into it? how are you trying to link this to BLM stuff? This is the problem in today's society, if your not 100% agreement with someone's point of view your labelled as something. Society looks to be outraged at certain things without looking at the broader picture. And I feel I gave a balanced view - there are innocent ones who get a bad rep, and there are guilty ones who get away with it. Neither is right. I didn't mean either way. You have picked on thing I said and honed in on that. If you want to use BLM stuff then it's just like people being outraged at a piece of Anthony Joshuas speech when they haven't listened to the whole speech or looked at the wider picture and took the one statement in isolation.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted June 21, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, kamicazze said: oh my word. the whole privilege thing is coming into it? Considering the way women are treated in wrestling, this is ABSOLUTELY a privilege thing. Don't just shut down because you don't understand it and don't like the word. Think about what it means. If you're a male wrestler or fan, you are more likely to be safe, unmolested and unharrassed at a wrestling show. That is a privilege that an awful lot of women don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamicazze Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Just now, Chris B said: Considering the way women are treated in wrestling, this is ABSOLUTELY a privilege thing. Don't just shut down because you don't understand it and don't like the word. Think about what it means. If you're a male wrestler or fan, you are more likely to be safe, unmolested and unharrassed at a wrestling show. That is a privilege that an awful lot of women don't have. In that sense yes, thats a very fair point. And I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 hours ago, MPDTT said: And as much as I despise criminals in all forms Don't want to detract from the original topic, but this strikes me as a bit... Draconian and strong. I don't want to live in a version of The Purge, but you despise all criminals?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehoncho Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 21 hours ago, Andy Roy said: Nadia sapphire just shared a particularly disturbing story about welsh wrestling just now. The fact welsh wrestling runs shows that are attended primarily by children makes it abit more grim  This isn't about Welsh Wrestling, the company. It's about "a Welsh wrestling promotion". A promotion from the Cynon valley area, by all accounts. Something to do with a diminutive alligator ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamicazze Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I'm pretty sure years ago the sun newspaper did a countdown to Charlotte Church's legal birthday. It might have been another paper. Looking back I've no idea how it went to print and they never got pulled up on it. This is eerily similar except they knew her personally. Disgusting from everyone involved on an impressionable young person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Roy Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, mikehoncho said:  This isn't about Welsh Wrestling, the company. It's about "a Welsh wrestling promotion". A promotion from the Cynon valley area, by all accounts. Something to do with a diminutive alligator ... It was their shows i saw Spud being a horrible little shit at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted June 21, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2020 A company has come out and confirmed Will Ospreay blacklisted Pollyanna  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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