Paid Members Lenin Posted November 8, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 8, 2020 Echo the thoughts of everyone else for the most part. Cody/Allin was superb and my favourite match of the night. I'd like to see Cody move on from the TNT Title picture and announce he's going after the big one. Gives them an opportunity (as someone mentioned) to actually develop a bit of depth to the title picture rather than cycling folk in and out for a few matches. Could do a similar story with Page and have him climb from the bottom up, working his way through the rankings. I was pretty disappointed by the main event, I was expecting so much more given the excellent build and the emotions that Kingston put into his promos. Sadly though it was just another of Moxley's pseudo-hardcore matches. For me he's borderline parody. All the hype about what he was going to do in WWE when he came back from injury "ripped" to getting his creative freedom and pushing the boundaries etc and personally I don't think he's delivered. The Omega match was good. This match was just a bit samey, given the build I was hoping for a war, really over the edge spots but it just never got there. They have a decision to make about how long he keeps the belt because he's already a bit stale in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted November 9, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 9, 2020 7 hours ago, Mr Butternut Squash said: Things started to nosedive with the Hardy match. I swear everything he touches turns to shit. Such a weird match too, the execution of it was all over the place in both production and tone. I can't believe they redid the spear spot that went so badly before. And it seemingly fucked someone up once again! I don't know if Sammy's head getting busted was a work or not -the camera completely missed it - but it was stupid either way. It was definitely a work. That's why the camera completely missed it. It's also why Sammy was lying in an instant pool of blood, yet wasn't actually bleeding at all out of the back of his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted November 9, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Suplex Sinner said: Echo the thoughts of everyone else for the most part. Cody/Allin was superb and my favourite match of the night. I'd like to see Cody move on from the TNT Title picture and announce he's going after the big one. Gives them an opportunity (as someone mentioned) to actually develop a bit of depth to the title picture rather than cycling folk in and out for a few matches. Could do a similar story with Page and have him climb from the bottom up, working his way through the rankings.. He's not allowed to, remember. It does feel like theyve run through all of the heel challengers pretty fast. I don't know what they do with Mox after Omega beats him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Suplex Sinner said: I was pretty disappointed by the main event, I was expecting so much more given the excellent build and the emotions that Kingston put into his promos. Sadly though it was just another of Moxley's pseudo-hardcore matches. For me he's borderline parody. All the hype about what he was going to do in WWE when he came back from injury "ripped" to getting his creative freedom and pushing the boundaries etc and personally I don't think he's delivered. The Omega match was good. This match was just a bit samey, given the build I was hoping for a war, really over the edge spots but it just never got there. They have a decision to make about how long he keeps the belt because he's already a bit stale in my opinion. It's an interesting point, and one that I've agreed with in terms of Mox for the most part, although I think since day 1 in AEW he's been treated like a megastar. He did suffer from some fairly shallow 'feuds' / monster of the week / whatever you want to call it. But I really thought he excelled recently with Kingston and I do think his promos have been a lot better in AEW. There's more intensity and a sense of freedom that you never really got with Dean Ambrose. Has he majorly changed up his act? Absolutely not but he is what he is. It's just how they manage that really, and I think AEW are better at emphasising his strengths. Before this I would've agreed about the staleness but actually I think now is the strongest he's ever looked. In terms of the actual match it's a difficult one to talk about because so many of us had such high expectations and really bought into the storyline. Obviously none of us were expecting Eddie to die or anything, nor would we want him to. And with a good few spots in recent times going wrong in AEW, I was almost a little relieved that they didn't go too far. It felt dangerous but on a more personal level rather than relying on big set pieces. I think I liked it that way. I was really against Eddie quitting but when I sat there and watched him get choked out with barbed wire, could I really blame him? Fuck no. I'd be out in a damn second. So again it did feel a bit more 'real' than anything I think. Plus you just know if they'd done anything too crazy people would've complained about that too.. Edited November 9, 2020 by DavidB6937 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra_gordo Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Had a mild panic on where he was going when JR started talking about dogs during Cody/Darby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Mox was a good listen on their post show presser, can tell he’s enjoying it and talks about how they moved around archer and Kingston abs his input into how they built it being all talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyUK Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Great show with pretty much all the matches delivering - I’d say Cody/Darby and FTR/Bucks were the highlights. Elite Deletion was fun nonsense and Moxley/Kingston put on the type of match you’d expect. It wasn’t Reigns/Uso but it did the job as an I Quit match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 9, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Duke said: He's not allowed to, remember. It does feel like theyve run through all of the heel challengers pretty fast. I don't know what they do with Mox after Omega beats him. Cody can't. But can Cody Rhodes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPumaPants Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Cody can't. But can Cody Rhodes? That would be an awful cop-out. He needs to maintain the stipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Cody can't. But can Cody Rhodes? He didn't speak in the third person when announcing the initial stip, so this wouldn't be a good workaround at all. If they do drop the stip, I think they'll come up with a good storyline reason for it. It wouldn't shock me if it took years for that to happen, though. Quote I don't know what they do with Mox after Omega beats him. For me the obvious choice is Mox versus Cody, a feud that couldn't happen while Moxley is champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsurutagun Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Cody can't. But can Cody Rhodes? Alright Vince Russo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted November 9, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 9, 2020 I really want a big Kingston Family vs Nightmare Family feud next. It would be easy to set up too as Butcher & Blade are already feuding with the Natural Nightmares. Maybe Eddie Kingston chops QT Marshall's head off with an axe or something and Cody/Dustin have to recruit some badasses (Will Hobbs for example) to fight Kingston's crew ending up in us finally getting Blood and Guts. That's 3 months of easy television right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 hours ago, LaGoosh said: I really want a big Kingston Family vs Nightmare Family feud next. It would be easy to set up too as Butcher & Blade are already feuding with the Natural Nightmares. Maybe Eddie Kingston chops QT Marshall's head off with an axe or something and Cody/Dustin have to recruit some badasses (Will Hobbs for example) to fight Kingston's crew ending up in us finally getting Blood and Guts. That's 3 months of easy television right there. I’m all for this. Tho if they can put Austin Gunn into a tree shredder as well that would be greet. Fucking toddler that’s always climbing over the barriers like they are a stair gate when they should be in bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted November 9, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 9, 2020 I loved this show. I think the quality of AEW PPVs dipped a little, between lockdown and them getting out of the honeymoon period that gave every show a kind of baseline level of hype, and this is the first time a show has really excelled purely on its own merits. Even JR was, a handful of throwaway grumpy comments aside, on the best form he's been on since joining AEW - still the weakest part of the announce team, though. Serena Deeb vs. Allysin Kay was a great, if unspectacular, match, Deeb in particular really stood out with some impressive transitions and holds - I can see why WWE saw fit to make her a trainer, but she still feels like a major missed opportunity. I do wonder where the NWA relationship is going, though - with an already fairly rough women's division, having what amounts to a secondary women's title is an odd choice, but they don't seem to be working with the NWA on any other fronts. I'd say it was all tied up in Cody playing on NWA/Dusty nostalgia, but if that were the case, Brandi would be NWA champ by now. Omega vs. Hangman was fantastic - both have superb timing and, when he's not hamming it up too much, Omega's capable of some subtle touches that really add to the story of his matches. Compare and contrast to WWE's "tell, don't show" storytelling - so much of the story of this match was around their moves, and what they meant, rather than Roman Reigns screaming the point of the story in case you miss it. An Omega win seemed inevitable, and I was annoyed, but probably annoyed for the right reasons - Hangman seemed absolutely broken at the end of it, and again when he showed up later in the show. It seems inevitable that the succession plan is Moxley losing to Omega, and Omega losing to Page, and I'm 100% fine with that - Hangman's story started with him not feeling like he could live up to the standards of The Elite after he failed to win the title, and it can end with him realising he doesn't need them anyway and winning the belt on his own merits, beating Omega in the process. Cassidy vs Silver was a good fun match, the sort of thing that was OC's bread and butter on the indies, while also showcasing how they've allowed Cassidy to evolve into a more competitive wrestler without undermining the gimmick. Nothing outstanding, but good midcard fodder, and seemed designed to allow Silver to show a little personality, which is all good. Darby Allin really brings out the worst instincts in Cody Rhodes, doesn't he? Build half the match around a hammerlock and working the arm, then fuck it off to hit a Top Rope Cross-Rhodes, nearly booting Mike Chioda in the face in the process. And it's barely even a near-fall. Speaking of Chioda, Cody allowing him a moment to soak up that fans were cheering for him was a really nice touch. My least favourite thing about Cody is that he can't work out if he's a face or a heel - all in the name of "shades of grey", but it just means his matches and stories are structured pretty abysmally, and with no relation to one another. At least Brandi didn't get involved. It at least seems like he's moving in a more genuinely heel direction here, with him going against Arn Anderson's plan and whatnot, but it makes you wonder why a guy who grew up in the business, with 15 years of experience, multiple title reigns, and routinely presented as the top guy in the company, needs a coach to tell him to pin his opponent. Saying that, MMA fighters and boxers need cornermen and coaches, so this is more in line with that "real sports presentation" the kids are talking about. Cody Rhodes came out to the ring with all of his best mates, but none of them could be bothered coming and helping him when he was jumped by Team Taz? Some friend you are, Billy Gunn. Just a complete lapse of logic in whoever booked that - at least Dustin and QT had the plausible excuse that they had an interview segment right after, so may have been sequestered away and unaware it was happening, but what about all the other Nightmare Family scrubs? Shida vs. Nyla was good, but not as good as the last time. No heat - unsurprisingly, as it was a typically dogshit effort at promoting this match - and Nyla seemed to be not quite in step. I liked her Megaman gear, and loved the finish - sometimes "just keep hitting someone until they don't get up" is all you need. I enjoyed the Bucks vs. FTR, and thought the repeated use of other tag teams' finishers was a good way of putting over the match as being all about tag team supremacy and being the best in the world. It also protected their own finishes by not having them kicked out of multiple times. I honestly thought this was going to a time limit draw, to accelerate the Young Bucks' heelish tendencies by having them not win the titles, but not really lose either, so result in them being put on the spot about their promise to never challenge for the belts again if they lost. Instead, they had an attack of Cody Rhodes Syndrome and sacked off months of slow burn heel work by working babyface for the entire match - that said, I liked the attempt at symmetry by having one of FTR's hands injured to mirror Matt Jackson's ankle injury, theoretically taking out core parts of both teams' offence. Except it didn't, because both men kept making liberal use of moves requiring the injured body part anyway. I enjoyed the match in spite of all of it, and even though I called that one of FTR was going to do a flip, I still popped for it being as great a flip as it was. My biggest criticism, though, is that it was another "the champions lose because they don't follow their manager's gameplan" finish, exactly like the Cody match - I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that it's intentional, given that it's Arn and Tully, and that this might be going somewhere. Hardy vs. Guevera was the downpoint of the show. Left a bad taste in my mouth that they did kayfabe repetition of a run of serious injuries/accidents that, if I were AEW, I'd be doing all I could to distance myself from rather than drawing attention to them. Some of the "Broken Universe" stuff was fun - obviously Gangrel being the highlight - and I was surprised to see Hurricane, as I didn't know/had forgotten that WWE had let him go. It was mostly a meandering mess with little of the charm that made the Broken stuff work, though. I think MJF/Jericho was let down by AEW's insistence on not doing DQ finishes. If MJF's feigned weapon shot had got Jericho disqualified, I'd have felt MJF was far more of a dick than him managing to pin Jericho moments after. It would piss people off, but in exactly the way DQs are supposed to. It wouldn't have felt like a cop-out, because it's perfect for the characters involved and the story they're telling. Moxley vs. Kingston, then. As I said, they'd have to kill each other to live up to the hype, and it didn't live up to the hype. That said, I loved it. What both men have is that they feel real, King especially, and that adds so much to a match like this. It never felt like they were meandering from spot to spot, or spending ten minutes meticulously setting up weapons for a high spot later in the match, it just felt like two blokes brawling and using whatever they could get their hands on. I felt deflated by the finish but, again, in exactly the right way. The desperation in Kingston's face, and that the way he said "I Quit" wasn't what we're used to - it wasn't a screaming, crying heel getting his comeuppance, it was just utterly defeated, almost tragic - made what could have been a lacklustre finish feel like, actually, the only logical finish they could have done. After the match, there was a point where Bryce Remsburg went to check on Eddie and got shoved away. A few moments later, he went to check him again, but instead just threw his hands up and walked out. It's a tiny, tiny touch, but given that they've been friends their entire careers, it added to the sense of Kingston as having fucked up so catastrophically - he's sacrificed every relationship and every friendship he ever had to get to this point, and for what? I'm biased, because I love Eddie Kingston, but this story has been really special, and produced some of the best wrestling TV in years. The match maybe didn't deliver on the lofty expectations set by the promos, but it delivered perfectly for the characters involved, and I hope they continue to realise that they have something truly special in Eddie Kingston - he could work magic with a lot of people on their roster. I'm sceptical, though, because they have a pretty poor track record of capitalising on challengers after they lose their big title matches - Lance Archer and Brian Cage were one and done, Brodie Lee hasn't wrestled since losing the TV belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted November 9, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 9, 2020 While I continue to think Cody shouldn't ever challenge for the title, the only way I could see them allowing it is if Omega (as champion) chases Cody, deciding he wants the TNT title as well. And he's glorying over the fact that only Cody's title will be on the line - but an edict comes down that Omega can only challenge for the TNT title if both are on the line. That'd take a good year or so, but I could see it happening. I'd rather they don't, though, and stick with the Hangman plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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