The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

[BomberPat]

the drinking aspect of Page/Omega is something I never thought they'd be able to handle all that well, but they have, and it does a good job of being a kind of microcosm of the whole story - Hangman drinks because he's insecure and second-guessing himself, but Kenny's teetotal so he sees the drinking itself as the problem and is blind to what Page is actually going through. 

Meanwhile, Page is insecure because he was the one of The Elite that doesn't get all the hype and attention, so he doesn't think they're really his friends, or that he belongs with them. So when someone like FTR treat him like a friend and offer him a beer, he's happy to be included, but Omega just sees it as him valuing beer over making their team work. 

 

In real life, two wrestling friends of mine had a similar dynamic - one had never drunk in his life, one was an alcoholic. I would sometimes meet the alcoholic one for a drink to talk through matches or whatever, and the non-drinking one would get really angry because he saw it as just encouraging his drinking - I'd explain that if he's drinking with me, he's having two or three pints in a couple of hours, rather than two or three bottles of wine in the same timespan on his own at home, but the non-drinker didn't see the distinction; any drinking was just him fucking up. I see a lot of that in how Omega carries himself in this feud.

[CavemanLynn]

7 minutes ago, unfitfinlay said:

I agree with this. Kenny was just a bit too understanding of Hangman costing the Buck's a title shot and getting kicked out of the Elite. I don't think he even questioned it at all did he? Besides I think it suits both their characters far more than "FTR did it".

I wouldn't have the Bucks forgive Hangman though. That's something you can leave bubbling away in the background and revisit when you need to. There's no need to wrap it up. Just have Kenny, Page and The Bucks all hate each other.

Unless I missed something, I thought it was pretty clear the Bucks hated Hangman, and Kenny, up until recently, was torn. But FTR's meddling with Hangman has convinced Kenny he was holding the team together and didn't need Hangman, hence his blase attitude to the tag title loss and decision that the next step of his AEW career was singles competition. This is on top of him repeatedly stating that the Bucks were the best tag team in the world, while him and Hangman had the belts, so no doubt Kenny is happy for the Bucks to take the tags from Dax and Cash while he gets singles gold and the Elite are all belted up.

Meanwhile, I really don't think Hangman needs a pep talk, and in fact I think that would only weaken him. To have him so dependent on another external voice to pick him back up makes him look pathetic as opposed to sympathetic. His belief needs to come from within. I don't know exactly how it would play out, but it needs to be him standing up for himself on his own, possibly even after a sustained kicking from Kenny and the Bucks, where he just starts no-selling everything.

[Tsurutagun]

16 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

the drinking aspect of Page/Omega is something I never thought they'd be able to handle all that well, but they have, and it does a good job of being a kind of microcosm of the whole story - Hangman drinks because he's insecure and second-guessing himself, but Kenny's teetotal so he sees the drinking itself as the problem and is blind to what Page is actually going through. 

Meanwhile, Page is insecure because he was the one of The Elite that doesn't get all the hype and attention, so he doesn't think they're really his friends, or that he belongs with them. So when someone like FTR treat him like a friend and offer him a beer, he's happy to be included, but Omega just sees it as him valuing beer over making their team work. 

 

In real life, two wrestling friends of mine had a similar dynamic - one had never drunk in his life, one was an alcoholic. I would sometimes meet the alcoholic one for a drink to talk through matches or whatever, and the non-drinking one would get really angry because he saw it as just encouraging his drinking - I'd explain that if he's drinking with me, he's having two or three pints in a couple of hours, rather than two or three bottles of wine in the same timespan on his own at home, but the non-drinker didn't see the distinction; any drinking was just him fucking up. I see a lot of that in how Omega carries himself in this feud.

It's the reason I adore the Hangman Page character so much. As someone who suffers from anxiety and a self esteem issues, I can totally relate to Page. I have read way too many takes online this past week about it not being great that wrestlers are talking about their feelings and are being sad. I bet that a significant portion of fans can totally relate to Hangman Page

[The Cutting Edge]

Omega and Bucks need that 2016-7 heel thing going, full on "we believe we're the fucking best" "best bout machine" "no one can touch us" type stuff.

Omega was great as the calm but cocky "Cleaner" with the cocky smug bucks talking him and backing him up.

With Inner Circle kinda cooling off, a top heel trio of The Elite going after Mox then Page chasing them is months of great story to tell but enough of shades of grey stuff they need to go full on heel and make a statement not a whimper.

[LaGoosh]

Feels pretty certain from the past few weeks that's where they're heading.

[Mr Butternut Squash]

I'm well into that, I've enjoyed The Young Bucks this year more than I ever thought I would and them as dick heels just fits. Only problem is, how will the inevitable Bucks vs FTR match work? 

[BomberPat]

I've said before that I'm pretty convinced that Omega assumed Ibushi would come with him to AEW, and that whatever they're doing with Omega and Page is them retrofitting a Golden Lovers story on to a new character. I don't think it's a coincidence that Kenny Omega almost immediately booked himself into an emotionally motivated tag team break-up story, he just changed things around to fit the change of cast.

[DavidB6937]

7 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

I've said before that I'm pretty convinced that Omega assumed Ibushi would come with him to AEW, and that whatever they're doing with Omega and Page is them retrofitting a Golden Lovers story on to a new character. I don't think it's a coincidence that Kenny Omega almost immediately booked himself into an emotionally motivated tag team break-up story, he just changed things around to fit the change of cast.

Do you think it would've worked as well with Ibushi? Especially with an American audience?

[BomberPat]

2 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Do you think it would've worked as well with Ibushi? Especially with an American audience?

I think the story would have been different - played more off their own pre-existing relationship rather than questions of anxiety and insecurity - but they'd be toying with doing the whole "will they/won't they" angle in NJPW for what felt like forever, and it got a reasonable amount of mainstream attention as an example of LGBT representation in wrestling.

I think that extra dynamic of them being potentially a couple or ex-couple, and their shared history, would have added something that would have more than made up for any potential worries of the language barrier impacting on Kota Ibushi's involvement. It would have required Kenny Omega to do more of the heavy lifting in terms of verbal storytelling - and your mileage may vary on how well that would work, but there is a clip of him hunched over practically in tears when asked at a press conference whether Ibushi was going to sign with AEW, so I'm sure it's always been something he had in mind. I just think it's too much of a coincidence that his big flagship story in NJPW was around a tag team partner, and he's doing the same in AEW.

[LaGoosh]

Definitely not. Especially as Hangman is such a natural likeable character. No way Ibushi would get the same sympathy.

[Chris B]

20 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

I've said before that I'm pretty convinced that Omega assumed Ibushi would come with him to AEW, and that whatever they're doing with Omega and Page is them retrofitting a Golden Lovers story on to a new character. I don't think it's a coincidence that Kenny Omega almost immediately booked himself into an emotionally motivated tag team break-up story, he just changed things around to fit the change of cast.

Someone on Reddit pointed out that Ibushi has been going through a similar storyline with Tanahashi, where he's become disillusioned after having to carry the team. And they split up around the same time as Hangman/Omega. 

Obviously, the meta-storyline is that both tried to replace the other and couldn't, and now both are likely going down a darker path as a result. (I'm saying that with mild sarcasm, but it also fits nicely).

 

However this plays out, there's going to be a moment around two years from now where a heel group are dominating. And the Bucks will come out against them as faces, and bring out Cody. And then bring out Kenny. And then bring out Hangman. And the pop will just keep building.

[Factotum]

I must say I've been impressed by how the story has gone. Its the type of long form storytelling in wrestling I get a kick out of. Its definitely now Kenny's time to become the top heel World Champion with Page the chasing face. Really looking forward to it going forward

[CavemanLynn]

This angle has gone so well, its difficult to imagine anyone other than Page carrying it off. If this is a reskinned Omega-Ibushi planned angle (which would make sense, if its's true what I heard about Omega wanting his whole career to be one long meta-angle), then I don't know how you get across this level of relatability and nuance without masses more exposition to tie things in to Kenny's wider career. They'd surely have been much more reliant on Kenny adding some fire to his low key promos, Ibushi's emoting being enough while he worked on bridging the language barrier, and probably chucking NJPW some coin to get the relevant archive footage.

In a few years time, I'll be fascinated by the dissection of this angle, especially how much of it was actually planned to go the way it did. I'm sure the early days of Page's boozing was meant to set him up as the heel, that and him getting the first tease of a split with the Buckshot that wasn't. Unfortunately/fortunately, just look at the guy. It might be because they've done such a bang-up job with him, but there's NO WAY he's anything but a face, especially with Kenny and the Bucks both being natural gaijin-style cocky pricks. The quintessential blue-eyed everyman, just as at home cutting soliloquies over eagle's nest in the woods as he is doing his housework with Dynamite CGI pyro as he is rolling up on a fucking horse and kicking serious ass both in the ring and at the bar. Outnumbered and betrayed by a gang of manipulative, arrogant neon shitbags. It's been such a breath of fresh air that it's easy to forget this is wrestling 101.

[DavidB6937]

It's certainly interesting looking back at the Hangman/Jericho title match. I really didn't get why they went with Hangman and I thought they'd done a terrible job of building him up as someone we were meant to care about. He just wasn't there at all.

Was that planned? Who knows. Seems a strange thing to 'plan' but as part of the overall story it certainly works. 

[Chris B]

2 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

It's certainly interesting looking back at the Hangman/Jericho title match. I really didn't get why they went with Hangman and I thought they'd done a terrible job of building him up as someone we were meant to care about. He just wasn't there at all.

Was that planned? Who knows. Seems a strange thing to 'plan' but as part of the overall story it certainly works. 

Definitely. They set it up with Hangman's disappointment both in the Bucks for not being enthusiastic about going to the ring with him and in himself for not winning. Afterwards, he looked to avoid the Elite and go his own way, but they all basically ignored what he wanted. It was a storyline for a while. 

I also reckon the plan has always been for him to be the face. While I think it went better than they expected in terms of his getting over, I think this has pretty much been the plan all along. Delayed a little, but not necessarily by lots.