The Smackers Thread

[DavidB6937]

Obviously most people get it from a business perspective and why Vince thinks its a good idea to have a guy like Lesnar main event the biggest PPVs.

But as regular viewers, there's a whole different opinion which is that it'd be nice to watch something a bit fucking different. I think that's fair.

[d-d-d-dAz]

7 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Obviously most people get it from a business perspective and why Vince thinks its a good idea to have a guy like Lesnar main event the biggest PPVs.

But as regular viewers, there's a whole different opinion which is that it'd be nice to watch something a bit fucking different. I think that's fair.

Sure.

But, that’s not really their concern. The argument back would be making decisions with commercial interests in mind keeps the ship sailing.

I agree with you, to a point, but I don’t expect them to make decisions based on it being a bit different.

We’re just all suffering through a period which isn’t entirely their fault, is my point. Commercially they need a big main event for a flagship PPV, and due to injuries and who their champion has already beat they’re pretty short.

[King Pitcos]

With Reigns vs Lesnar, the idea isn’t to appeal to people who have moaned about everything the company has done for the last two decades. They’re the two biggest stars, and this is only the second match on US soil between Cowboy Brock and the Tribal Chief. It’s still by far the biggest and most exciting match they’ve got as far as normals are concerned, no matter how much we moan that nobody wants to see it. 

Personally, I’m not particularly excited for it at the moment, (although I fucking love it just for the reaction online. SmackDown was bookended with bits that fully triggered the anti-WWE mob) but they’ve got a month and a half to change my mind on that and they’re both brilliant at what they do. I’m open to them getting me excited for it by show time, I wouldn’t be watching or following it otherwise. You’re not valuing your own time when you’re wasting it on stuff you’ve already decided to hate.

As someone who has been moaning online about wrestling for two decades, I bought WrestleMania tickets this year on about two weeks notice once it became clear Austin was doing a return match. And the Reigns-Lesnar main event was a letdown. I think a big Last Man Standing brawl plays to their strengths and gives them a chance to make up for the disappointment in Dallas.

Hello everyone. It’s been a mad few weeks in wrestling! The MJF stuff, Tony Khan’s meltdown about Bischoff, CM Punk being shit then injured, the purple tits Cody Rhodes madness, the Banks/Naomi walkout, Jeff Hardy being shit and injured and pissed behind the wheel, and both Vince and the wrestling gossip columnists getting caught with their pants down when actual real journalists uncovered him being a right dirty old bastard. There’s probably more big stories I’m forgetting, but it’s been such an interesting time.

Anyway, I loved the Riddle vs Reigns match, and Sheamus’ gang are my favourite act in wrestling at the moment. Butch vs Gunther in Cardiff, please! I think SmackDown urgently needs a Bayley return. I don’t know if she’s still injured or what, but what an upgrade she’d be from Natalya.

[Hannibal Scorch]

@d-d-d-dAz speaking of ticket sales and building events by a card, this is about the Raw with the return of John Cena:

WrestleTix noted the show has sold 5,154 tickets and there are 574 tickets left. 1,428 tickets have been sold since the Cena announcement.

This means the announcement of Cena only did a small bump to the ticket sales. Yes, it’s not a match, but it’s his return to the company he carried. That surely suggests people will either go or not, a single name isn’t enough to bump significantly 

[d-d-d-dAz]

8 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

@d-d-d-dAz speaking of ticket sales and building events by a card, this is about the Raw with the return of John Cena:

WrestleTix noted the show has sold 5,154 tickets and there are 574 tickets left. 1,428 tickets have been sold since the Cena announcement.

This means the announcement of Cena only did a small bump to the ticket sales. Yes, it’s not a match, but it’s his return to the company he carried. That surely suggests people will either go or not, a single name isn’t enough to bump significantly 

Then why do you think they book Lesnar?

If it’s not for business reasons, why are they spending millions to bring him back to headline Summerslam?
 

I’m happy to be wrong, but no one’s come up with an argument beyond ‘BOOOO! I DON’T PERSONALLY FIND THIS ENTERTAINING’ that makes any sense. And, like, Pitcos said - it may be that we’re just too close to the eye of the storm to see the effects.

As an exercise, go to Google Trends and compare Brock Lesnar’s worldwide search data against any of the salaried wrestlers they have on staff; I just did AJ and Lashley, and at no point does their line even intersect with Lesnar’s even over the past 12 months.

The only people that even come close to generating the same level of traffic in that period are Cody and Roman. Rollins and Orton intersected once with Brock, but during a period where Brock was at his lowest level.

Edited June 19, 2022 by d-d-d-dAz

[Hannibal Scorch]

10 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Then why do you think they book Lesnar?

If it’s not for business reasons, why are they spending millions to bring him back to headline Summerslam?
 

I’m happy to be wrong, but no one’s come up with an argument beyond ‘BOOOO! I DON’T PERSONALLY FIND THIS ENTERTAINING’ that makes any sense. And, like, Pitcos said - it may be that we’re just too close to the eye of the storm to see the effects.

As an exercise, go to Google Trends and compare Brock Lesnar’s worldwide search data against any of the salaried wrestlers they have on staff; I just did AJ and Lashley, and at no point does their line even intersect with Lesnar’s even over the past 12 months.

The only people that even come close to generating the same level of traffic in that period are Cody and Roman. Rollins and Orton intersected once with Brock, but during a period where Brock was at his lowest level.

Does internet traffic or ticket sales put more money in their pocket? And compare Brock to Cena as that’s what I’ve used as an example

[d-d-d-dAz]

But, that’s an arbitrary example. Undertaker may have also driven more traffic… but does he want to come back to main event Summerslam? Would Cena/Reigns be any better a year after it happened the first time?

The original point was near enough anyone would be better than Brock, and that Brock didn’t offer any benefits.

I said that Brock brings coverage and will hopefully shift tickets for them (the basic rule of marketing is if more people are paying attention to your product then you should make more sales).

But, if coverage/attention doesn’t matter - and you think it’s clear he won’t increase sales - then seriously - again - why do you think he’s been booked?

*edit* Cena, unsurprisingly, is a bigger google trend topic - other than during Wrestlemania week (again unsurprisingly). Lesnar beat Undertaker.

I honestly can’t think of a convincing reason than it obviously makes business sense for them. I’m dying to hear one. Potentially you could make an argument for  Cena, but that’s very different than saying anyone could do it. And it makes a big assumption that Cena’s schedule allows him to come back and work a main event programme - or that he even wants to.

Edited June 19, 2022 by d-d-d-dAz

[Devon Malcolm]

4 hours ago, King Pitcos said:

With Reigns vs Lesnar, the idea isn’t to appeal to people who have moaned about everything the company has done for the last two decades. They’re the two biggest stars, and this is only the second match on US soil between Cowboy Brock and the Tribal Chief. It’s still by far the biggest and most exciting match they’ve got as far as normals are concerned, no matter how much we moan that nobody wants to see it. 

Personally, I’m not particularly excited for it at the moment, (although I fucking love it just for the reaction online. SmackDown was bookended with bits that fully triggered the anti-WWE mob) but they’ve got a month and a half to change my mind on that and they’re both brilliant at what they do. I’m open to them getting me excited for it by show time, I wouldn’t be watching or following it otherwise. You’re not valuing your own time when you’re wasting it on stuff you’ve already decided to hate.

As someone who has been moaning online about wrestling for two decades, I bought WrestleMania tickets this year on about two weeks notice once it became clear Austin was doing a return match. And the Reigns-Lesnar main event was a letdown. I think a big Last Man Standing brawl plays to their strengths and gives them a chance to make up for the disappointment in Dallas.

Hello everyone. It’s been a mad few weeks in wrestling! The MJF stuff, Tony Khan’s meltdown about Bischoff, CM Punk being shit then injured, the purple tits Cody Rhodes madness, the Banks/Naomi walkout, Jeff Hardy being shit and injured and pissed behind the wheel, and both Vince and the wrestling gossip columnists getting caught with their pants down when actual real journalists uncovered him being a right dirty old bastard. There’s probably more big stories I’m forgetting, but it’s been such an interesting time.

Anyway, I loved the Riddle vs Reigns match, and Sheamus’ gang are my favourite act in wrestling at the moment. Butch vs Gunther in Cardiff, please! I think SmackDown urgently needs a Bayley return. I don’t know if she’s still injured or what, but what an upgrade she’d be from Natalya.

[Keith Houchen]

6 hours ago, King Pitcos said:

Hello everyone

[Duke]

13 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Then why do you think they book Lesnar?

If it’s not for business reasons, why are they spending millions to bring him back to headline Summerslam?

Because Randy Orton got injured and they panicked.

That's the answer. That's obviously the answer.

WWE has shown time and time again over the past however many years that when the going gets tough they bring in a part timer. If Brock wasn't available they'd have probably defrosted Goldberg again. 

Orton was looking like a really good challenger for Summerslam. He and Riddle have got momentum behind them and are over, and don't feel like they've hit their ceiling. Even better, you can beat them (because obviously Roman was going to) and they just go back to their tag team so there's no loss there. Orton gets injured and that throws a small spanner in the works, but it's really easily resolved by just building Riddle up over the next few weeks and NOT DOING IT ON SMACKDOWN FOR FREE. That match had some interest behind it (as evidenced by the rating), and could easily have main evented Summerslam as a star making loss for Riddle. You then make the other main event Brock vs Drew, which Drew wins to build to Castle in the Clouds in Wales in September. 

That idea took very little time to think up, allows you to build two big matches for Summerslam and most importantly has two guys benefit from it for the shows beyond that point. 

We know because we know because we know that rematches lead to diminishing returns unless there's a particular clamour for one, that being that it was close, or controversial, or a particularly good match. Brock v Roman again won't do as well as the previous times it was booked because everyone's seen it and there's no good reason for it. Casual fans won't be outraged, but plenty of them will just think "meh, seen it" and move on, and Brock's drawing power will get that little bit less. That would all be fine except this match doesn't get you anywhere. It doesn't help anything, it doesn't lead to anything. It just fills the time. They'll probably get a short term ratings bump, but nothing that's going to do anything sustainable. And the more they do this exact thing, the less impactful it gets. 

 

[d-d-d-dAz]

I mean that’s part of the reason sure, but the idea it has no impact on business is insane. Orton got injured absolutely - and he’s amongst that group of genuine stars - they looked around, didn’t have one, and called one.

I’ve never disputed that. I’ve said that injury is part of why they’ve had to panic and make the call.

Suggesting Lashley or AJ or another weekly character would have worked just as well is utter madness.

[Duke]

1 hour ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

I mean that’s part of the reason sure, but the idea it has no impact on business is insane. Orton got injured absolutely - and he’s amongst that group of genuine stars - they looked around, didn’t have one, and called one.

I’ve never disputed that. I’ve said that injury is part of why they’ve had to panic and make the call.

Suggesting Lashley or AJ or another weekly character would have worked just as well is utter madness.

Of course they would. Because not putting Brock against Roman doesn't mean you can't put him anywhere else on the show. Hell, you could've not broken up Judgement Day for a month and have him face Edge. That means you're not beating Brock again, diminishing him for no purpose, and you have the opportunity to raise the profile of someone else by having them take Roman to the limit. While I'd be alright with that being Lashley or AJ, again, Riddle is the best option. 

Randy Orton's never been a particularly good draw. He wasn't when he was feuding with Cena in 2009, he certainly isn't in 2022. They were clearly not concerned about having the biggest match possible at Summerslam before he was injured, because if they were they would've got Brock in the first place. Rather than going "crap, we better get Brock", which does them no good in the long or even medium term, they could've used this to elevate someone.

Because ultimately that's the problem. If they're looking around and thinking they've not got anyone who can lose decisively to Roman Reigns (because that's all anyone does these days), their response needs to be "we need to make some new stars". They should've thought of that years ago, but there we are. Maybe if Lashley runs through the Usos rather being in a pose down with Theory. Maybe you could stick him and the Street Prophets in a 6 man with the Bloodline. Maybe AJ Styles gets to do a veteran underdog Randy Couture story where he qualifies and goes up against the odds. Maybe you call up Bronn Brekker and have him fight literally everyone in the locker room and climb on top of the mangled pile to reach the MITB briefcase. In all of those options, if you play it right, at the end, you have someone who's a bigger star than they were going in, and who might even be another opponent for Roman down the line. 

You can still do all of that and have Brock on the show, and you can do it in a way that revitalises him a bit and makes his next appearance a bigger draw.

[The King of Old School]

I would have carried on with the Riddle/Bloodline story until  Summerslam.

Just have Heyman continue to dismiss Riddle saying he's done nothing worthy to have a shot at the Tribal Chief, Riddle wins MITB and cashes in well in advance to face Roman at Summerslam

As someone else said, you can still have Brock come back for Summerslam, a number 1 contenders match with Drew would have been good i think.

[air_raid]

6 minutes ago, The King of Old School said:

Riddle wins MITB and cashes in well in advance to face Roman at Summerslam

Given their obsession with "moments" that they can tweet or put on 90 second YouTube videos, they'd consider that a waste of a briefcase "CASH IN ZOMG!!!111!"

[Callum1993]

I do wonder if Rollins is going to win MITB and cash in during Reigns and Lesnar again. That way they get the belt off Reigns without him having to lose to keep him strong to face The Rock at Mania next year. Really hope that’s not the route they go down but it wouldn’t surprise me.