Wrestling unpopular opinions

[Cannibal Man]

That Al Snow video still annoys the fuck out of me every time. If he'd have made that a gimmick he'd have been huge.

[CavemanLynn]

The Netflix binge watching model is an interesting thought experiment.

Let's say your average American drama season consists of 22 50 minute (+ ads) episodes. Although the streaming service originals vary, I think this is a decent starting point. So for one season of storylines building to a finale, that equates to roughly 18 hours 20 minutes, to be binged in a weekend.

Could you binge 9 hours a day of WWE without skipping?

4 weeks of 2 hour Raws and 2 hour Smackdown, plus one 3 hour PPV comes to 19 hours. Could you sit and watch all that over a weekend? More importantly, would the characters and storylines have progressed and changed over that time so, at the end of the finale, they had reached a logical but surprising conclusion, that had you intrigued in what could happen the next season?

In addition, the drama equivalent of a wrestling match is having two characters in one scene, unbroken, for 10-20 minutes. In most dramas, that would be seen as a brave tent pole episode at best; at worst, glacial filler to pad the runtime. It's a common complaint about the Marvel Netflix shows that they are decent 8 episode seasons dragged out to 11 episodes, with 2-3 hours of wheel spinning, where characters kayfabe lick their wounds while the show runners hit their content contractual commitment. Viewers would accept that as part of wider pacing, not as the norm.

I personally think the idea of scheduled programming, outside live event broadcasting, is on the way out. I think WWE would be smart to look at the binge watching market and tweak one or more of their brands to that. Greater variety of format, more pre-tape, cross-cutting of matches and vignettes, house show recaps, and whatever else, especially with the current situation making the standard live format a bust.

It's a weird situation of audiences being willing to commit their time as long as their ADD viewing habit is met,and it feels like WWE is behind the curve.

[Callum1993]

7 hours ago, Gay as FOOK said:

That kind of revisionist thinking has been going on for years now with the Attitude Era. You'll have people passing it off as if it was this lurid time span that got over thanks to all the teenage boys at the time popping for stuff like  Marlene's miscarriage and that the whole thing was just this of its time embarrassment, really.

In fairness that was a particularly harrowing episode of Only Fools and Horses. 

[HarmonicGenerator]

The thing with bingeworthy series on Netflix is you might watch a whole 10 hour season in a day, but once you’re done you’re probably not getting another season for a year or more. Apply that to WWE and that’s what you have to sit through every single week!

[bbabba]

5 hours ago, Cannibal Man said:

That Al Snow video still annoys the fuck out of me every time. If he'd have made that a gimmick he'd have been huge.

For a month or two in 2016 Al Snow did an amazing "bitter veteran" gimmick in TNA, where he was basically pissed at how any fat comedy act wrestler can get booked, and that its not like his day where you had to get stretched to get into the business.

Unfortunately after a great start to a serious character, TNA turned it into a joke and killed all of its heat.  But for me it was the best work of Snow's (very mediocre) career.

 

[LaGoosh]

I find it so weird that Al Snow turned into a jacked, tanned miserable hardass years after his career ended and during his career he was a chubby, pasty goofy comedy guy. 

[dopper]

The Montreal Screwjob wasn't a big deal, in retrospect.

 

At the time I was as fascinated by the whole thing as anyone and saw it as one of the most incredible stories in modern wrestling history. But looking back now, nobody was worse off because of it and EVERYONE was actually better off than they were previously (at least in the short term).

 

Bret Hart is perceived as a victim who was betrayed and his legacy left in ruins, and we know how his WCW run was a disaster. But he ended up with the biggest contract of his entire career out of this, and isn't making money the whole point?

Vince McMahon purely by accident created the best heel of all time (himself) and went on to reclaim the number one spot in wrestling and do record-breaking business in the ensuing few years.

Eric Bischoff and WCW got a huge signing, arguably WWE's then top star still in his prime, and a shitload of publicity around it.

Shawn Michaels is in the top spot and the guy he hates no longer works there.

Davey Boy & Anvil got WCW contracts immediately afterwards.

Owen got a brief push and probably a pay-rise.

 

This came to me last year when watching the first season of "Dark Side Of The Ring" and the episodes were all about actual tragedies like Brody, Miss Elizabeth, Gino Hernandez, The Von Erich's, etc. They all made Montreal look like a few people arguing over whether someone should win a fake match or not. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.   

[tiger_rick]

7 minutes ago, dopper said:

This came to me last year when watching the first season of "Dark Side Of The Ring" and the episodes were all about actual tragedies like Brody, Miss Elizabeth, Gino Hernandez, The Von Erich's, etc. They all made Montreal look like a few people arguing over whether someone should win a fake match or not. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.   

That isn't a great measuring stick. Every shitty business practice, every bit of locker room bullying, every one who was ostracised, etc all pales in comparison to the real tragedies.

That said, I don't particularly disagree. With hindsight, everyone (except Bret) got ever it pretty quickly and no-one (except Bret) lost anything. I understand the fuss in the moment because it does mean a lot to people who are involved in it, it isn't just some fake result, it's the protection of their livelihood, in Vince's case it's his company and in Bret's, it's his character which is his personal limited company and revenue stream.

I think it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Bret hadn't been hurt in 2000. If he could have worked when WWE took over the industry, I suspect he'd have put the hurt over Montreal and Owen aside to be able to work. As it was, it all just festered for another decade.

[FLips]

On the other side of the fence though, The Montreal Screwjob was indirectly responsible for killing Owen Hart and ending Bret's career, which in the grand scheme of things I would say weigh heavier than the positives. There's no chance Bret would have let Owen do the rafter thing if he was still there, and it's arguable Owen wouldn't have even been the Blue Blazer at that time if Bret was still there.

It's a neat little pocket of history but it's tough to dismiss the indirect implications it had.

[CavemanLynn]

In storyline and possibly personal financial terms, then yes, it probably wasn't too big a deal. But in the grand scheme of things, it was a massive turning point in the wrestling industry, as you've already highlighted. You can't regard the event in isolation - you absolutely have to view it within the surrounding five-year period to see exactly how massive it was. It turned the tide, and ultimately led to WWE's complete monopolisation of the business.

It was also the first time that the pettiness, back-biting, paranoia and insecurities of the inner workings of the WWF and the wider industry were suddenly, inexplicably, thrown into the spotlight. If it wasn't a work, then there's absolutely no reason for it to have played out in front of thousands of fans and millions of viewers. Fear, loathing, arrogance, egotism, and cold hard cash - the cartoon era was publically dead.

[tiger_rick]

49 minutes ago, FelatioLips said:

There's no chance Bret would have let Owen do the rafter thing if he was still there

Is that true or is it hindsight? Sting had been coming from the rafters for a couple of years and I'm not aware that anyone was arguing against it. 

[Ronnie]

53 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Is that true or is it hindsight? Sting had been coming from the rafters for a couple of years and I'm not aware that anyone was arguing against it. 

But there aren't reports about Sting not wanting to do it, as far as I know. Owen didn't want to do the gig in the first place. (Wasn't the return of the Blue Blazer a punishment because he didn't want to be portrayed as having an affair with Debra?)

There was a fascinating documentary by John Pollock released for the 20th anniversary called Owen Hart's Final Day. It includes contributions from lots of big names, plus also the fan with whom Owen spent that final day. According to him, Owen definitely didn't want to do the stunt, and it took a phone call from Vince McMahon ordering him to do it if he wanted to keep his job to get him to that arena. It's hard for me to think of anything like this panning out if Bret is in the company at the time.

(You should do yourself a favour and give the documentary a go when you've got a spare hour.)

[Wrasslin]

2 hours ago, FelatioLips said:

On the other side of the fence though, The Montreal Screwjob was indirectly responsible for killing Owen Hart and ending Bret's career, which in the grand scheme of things I would say weigh heavier than the positives. There's no chance Bret would have let Owen do the rafter thing if he was still there, and it's arguable Owen wouldn't have even been the Blue Blazer at that time if Bret was still there.

It's a neat little pocket of history but it's tough to dismiss the indirect implications it had.

Well no because Bret didn’t leave because of the Montreal Screw job. The Montreal screw job happened because he left. 

[Egg Shen]

agree with Ronnie, that Post Wrestling podcast/documentary is excellent.

[wordsfromlee]

6 hours ago, FelatioLips said:

On the other side of the fence though, The Montreal Screwjob was indirectly responsible for killing Owen Hart and ending Bret's career, which in the grand scheme of things I would say weigh heavier than the positives. There's no chance Bret would have let Owen do the rafter thing if he was still there, and it's arguable Owen wouldn't have even been the Blue Blazer at that time if Bret was still there.

It's a neat little pocket of history but it's tough to dismiss the indirect implications it had.

Indirectly as well because after the screwjob, Bulldog and The Anvil left WWF out of protest against what had just happened with Bret. Vince let them buy themselves out of their contract which I think for Bulldog was a six-figure sum. Owen wanted to leave with them but he either couldn't afford the contract buy-out or was refused and forced to stay.

So if he'd left like he wanted to, his death would never had happened.