Paid Members Accident Prone Posted March 1, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2021 Everyone has their lines. Where some people will find Ospreay to be the exit point, others will point at the likes of Scurll, Chase, Honma, ZSJ and Shingo as their own. There's no such thing as ethical consumption of professional wrestling, so you just have to do what you can. It's a shit business, and it's made no better with EVIL getting a bye into the next round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheapheat Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Correct me if I'm wrong, (Please do, I'm not trying to take a side here) Isn't the Ospreay stuff all skuttle butt? I never saw any evidence to base an opinion on.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Cheapheat said: Correct me if I'm wrong, (Please do, I'm not trying to take a side here) Isn't the Ospreay stuff all skuttle butt? I never saw any evidence to base an opinion on.Ā The promotion who were threatened with losing their venue confirmed it was true and apologised. In the end it's New Japan, they hired Elgin after his dodgy shit, Honma after the domestic violence accusations and I'm sure many others (I'm unsure what the Takagi, Sabre or Owens incidents were). They don't really give a shit.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheapheat Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, westlondonmist said: The promotion who were threatened with losing their venue confirmed it was true and apologised. In the end it's New Japan, they hired Elgin after his dodgy shit, Honma after the domestic violence accusations and I'm sure many others (I'm unsure what the Takagi, Sabre or Owens incidents were). They don't really give a shit.Ā I don't think they give a shit you are right there. But apologies, when you say 'the promotion confirmed it was true.' What did they confirm? I am a little bit out of the loop because the lack of due process made it hard to see the wood from the trees. I'm not trying to be a prick or defend anyone but I've never been quite sure what he wasĀ accused of, and the sensitive nature of this topic makes it hard to have a good faith discussion about it.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 25 minutes ago, westlondonmist said: The promotion who were threatened with losing their venue confirmed it was true and apologised. In the end it's New Japan, they hired Elgin after his dodgy shit, Honma after the domestic violence accusations and I'm sure many others (I'm unsure what the Takagi, Sabre or Owens incidents were). They don't really give a shit.Ā I don't know about the others butĀ Shingo was (allegedly) involved in the Dragon Gate animal abuse scandal. Basically Cima bought a money that lived at the gym and it got tortured. They chokedĀ it, threw it into boiling water, etc. Pretty fucked up stuff. 8 minutes ago, Cheapheat said: I don't think they give a shit you are right there. But apologies, when you say 'the promotion confirmed it was true.' What did they confirm? I am a little bit out of the loop because the lack of due process made it hard to see the wood from the trees. I'm not trying to be a prick or defend anyone but I've never been quite sure what he wasĀ accused of, and the sensitive nature of this topic makes it hard to have a good faith discussion about it.Ā He actively tried to blackball a woman who came forward with allegations against one of his mates. To the point that, as above, a venue threatened cancel a show unless she was pulled because "Will is our boy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Tweet from a promoter confirming she was blacklisted.Ā Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) I'm going to do my best to lay out the Ospreay situation here. I hadĀ doubts about whether I should post this or not considering the sensitive nature of it all, and I'll most likely regret posting this. I hope I don't, as it should help people make an informed decision. The accusation was initially; Will blackballed a rape victim by continuously bookingĀ the accused (who was a friend of his)Ā and using his power in the industry to make sure that the victim was either not booked, or had theirĀ booking cancelled, in promotionsĀ where he had some sway. In June of last year, during Speaking Out,Ā one of the promotions confirmed that Will forced them to unbook the victim (as Unfitfinlay and King Of Swing have shown examples of), thenĀ later in the year they walked it back by tweeting out that Will never actually forced them to do anything and it was all down to the venue. Will has proven himself to be a bit of a twat previouslyĀ (calling out a wrestler for heading homeĀ early from a Japan tour because she had a death in the family, milking his fanbase for cash in order to buy his mum a new car, making snide comments towards the victim when the initial allegations firstĀ surfaced), so even when removing the venue/promotion confusion, you can still form an opinion on ifĀ he's on your shit list. Maybe WillĀ contacted the venue and got them to play the middle man in removing the victim's bookings?Ā Maybe he contacted the promotion and made them walk their initial statement back? Or maybe he didn't do anyĀ of those things, and the venue and/or promotion made a decision independently. No matter what, the hard truth of the entire matter is that there is a victim of a horrendous assaultĀ at the centre of all this. That should trumpĀ everything. That's why it felt absolutely ghastly to typeĀ all that out, because ultimately theĀ actions and consequences in this are all very, very real. Edited March 3, 2021 by Accident Prone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) Were there any convictions or police involvement in this case? Just curious as to how far the complaint went.Ā Edited March 3, 2021 by Michael_3165 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheapheat Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Well that Dragon gate stuff is fucking horrific. The stuff with Will to me seems like he believed a friend rather than actively supported a rapist but that's just my opinion I guess. It's weird because he was always a guy I disliked personally, but I guess it makes more sense to me, somewhere between Occam's razor and faith in humanity. However I can't know why he did it and There is a genuine victim here and it isn't my place to speculate.Ā It's an awful situation I find very hard to find any moral ground I'm comfortable with. How should Will be punished? How should Polly be compensated? What is justice here? I am really hesitant to type anything on here that looks like I'm defending him. But I have a hard time believing he willfully knew she was a victim and supported her abuse as that's totally psychopathic.Ā I just have a hard time with internet justice as opposed to due legal process.Ā TL/DR it seems like a lot accusations it's impossible to know the truth of. So umm what the fuck should I think here? So worried about posting this and I am trying not to disrespect anyone .Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) Him believing a friend is fine. Him using the power he has (as a result of his ability) to help blackball someone over it isn't. The best-case scenario here is that someone did this for him without his knowledge, and he didn't do anything to stop it or didn't know. But the idea that a venue, off their own backs, contacted a promotion to take a wrestler off because of their issues with Will Ospreay's mate, is clearly nonsense, especially since they're not disputing 'Will's our boy' was the tone of the discussion. And since so many women in the industry have supported her and shared her story, it's pretty clear a lot in the industry believe that too. I'm sure we're all aware how lousy rape/sexual assault conviction and prosecution rates are, not least because it's almost always a 'he-said, she-said' - it's a crime that rarely leaves evidence of a crime. If we were to always withhold belief until prosecution, we'd believe women were very, very rarely raped and sexually assaulted. 'Innocent until proven guilty' isn't a perfect system - it's merely the best workable one we have, and it lets the majority of rape, abuse and assault victims down. We're not held under due process, because we don't need due process to decide whether or not weĀ want to support someone. I'm not calling for Ospreay to face criminal charges, and I don't believe anyone else is either. I'm not saying NJPW shouldn't be allowed to hire him. I am saying it affects whether I (and clearly some other people too) want to watch his matches and support shows built around him. Ā Streisand Effect in full force in this thread, btw. Edited March 3, 2021 by Chris B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) Will Ospreay Responds to Allegations of Blacklisting Pollyanna, Apologizes & Denies Role in Any Blacklisting, Pollyanna Claims He's Not Sorry | 411MANIAĀ I remember when we were discussing his views on #speakingout at the time, but this alone should sour you view on himĀ At one point in November 2017, Will Ospreay tweeted on November 17, 2017, āThink itās disgusting that people can use social media to accuse people of sexual assault. More than a handful of people know the real you. Trying to use your position to isolate and assault someone is pathetic.āĀ Followed by it being deleted and then his "apology a day later "I cannot express how sorry I am that I may have turned people into thinking Iām so careless about this subject. I care way too much about my fans and the victims. I really hope you guys can forgive me & will happily listen too any suggestions to make this right again." Edited March 3, 2021 by Hannibal Scorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Chris B said: We're not held under due process, because we don't need due process to decide whether or not weĀ want to support someone. I'm not calling for Ospreay to face criminal charges, and I don't believe anyone else is either. I'm not saying NJPW shouldn't be allowed to hire him. I am saying it affects whether I (and clearly some other people too) want to watch his matches and support shows built around him. Very much this. This isn't about "internet justice" - nobody's talking about having him arrested, or meting out jail sentences or the death penalty. We're a bunch of fans talking about what we know and how this affectsĀ ourĀ actions, for which we don't need to go to a court of law, because nothing we say or do will affect their freedom or right to life.Ā The entire point about the #MeToo movement was to highlight and attempt to force a change in predatory behaviour, and the culture that protects/supports it, that the justice system simply misses. There are no criminal laws dealing with what Ospreay's done, nor can there be (did Pollyanna bring a civil suit against Ospreay for defamation or loss of earnings? I'd have thought that at least would be actionable, given the published admission), so it's about a grassroots cultural movement that can gradually persuade people in general to bring social consequences en masse to those who engage in this sort of behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members TheBurningRed Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 2 hours ago, westlondonmist said: (I'm unsure what the Takagi, Sabre or Owens incidents were). They don't really give a shit.Ā The Sabre incident is the fact heās remained silent since last summer on all the accusations against his mates. And the fact he is/was sponsored by SPLX which one of the accused runs.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted March 3, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted March 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, TheBurningRed said: The Sabre incident is the fact heās remained silent since last summer on all the accusations against his mates. And the fact he is/was sponsored by SPLX which one of the accused runs.Ā Which considering how outspoken ZSJ is on lots of issues is incredibly noticeable.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Yeah I remember people posting stuff likeĀ Zack seems to have lost his social media login detailsĀ as it was all going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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