The Why Don't You Get a Job Thread

[unfitfinlay]

On 9/6/2019 at 9:40 AM, Ralphy said:

I have signed up to work in a charity shop starting next week, only 4 hours on a Thursday, feeling quite nervous, any tips for it please peeps? I need to do this to help my confidence and my cv 

If it's anything like the one I worked in years ago then you'll be fine.

Everybody there will have their own reasons for being there, after all. The folk I worked with ranged from retirees, to folk with physical and mental disabilities, to one guy who just had some real confidence issues, to the point he'd struggle to say "Hello" in the morning.

They'll be used to working with all sorts of folk so nobody is going to get judgemental or arsey with you. The only people I ever say getting shit were a lassie who went to sleep on a pile of clothes, and a wee dickhead who was coming in the morning and dipping the till before we opened.

Just try and relax and enjoy the experience.

[Philo_Vance]

After 5 years of working for a shithouse firm building racking and displays and whatnot in branches of B and Q, I've managed to escape. Fiancé's dad got me a foot in the door with a housebuilding firm as logistics manager and three months later I'm moving up to assistant site manager and getting put through some professional qualifications. First job I've ever had with any kind of prospects. I'm loving it so far, but I'm also so far out of my depth that James Cameron keeps going past in his little submarine. 

[MPDTT]

On 9/4/2019 at 7:51 PM, Doog said:

Need some advice please.

Currently really worried right now, I work in a call centre type role with lots of admin associated with it. I’ve never been one to follow processes as such and I know some of this is my fault but I need to know my options. So when we make calls we are judged on certain things by the QA department, have to say certain bits word for word, ask the right stuff, you know the score. In May i received email feedback from QA advising that my call scores were not good and I had failed on some mandatories and that “I would be referred to my Team Leader and call coaches for extra support. Fair enough. Then radio silence. No feedback for ages, no input from team leaders or anything. In early August I randomly got a message advising QA we’re going to sit with me. They sat with my for 1 hour. During that time I made several calls but no one answered and did admin work. They only observed.

No feedback again, nothing happened.

Today I’m pulled into a meeting with my Team Leader and Manager. They advise they have received a lot of feedback over the last couple months about my calls ad need to to do an investigation. We will meet again in 1 week and if the reports are upheld I will be going down a capability and disciplinary route.

Now I appreciate I may not have done all I need to do on the calls, i accept that, but I have been offered support and then it has not been delivered, and today was the first I’d heard about all of these so called terrible calls I’d done.

Do I have a leg to stand on relating to the potential disciplinary? What should my next move be? I’ve had no feedback since May, no support that I was promised and now this.

As a caveat me and my Team Leader get on well which makes it more awkward but she clearly doesn’t have my back in this instance. The manager and my Team Leader are also friends outside of work with the head of HR so I need to be careful how I play this.

Any advise would really be appreciated. Thank you

Hi @Doog, as an HR Director, let me give you some advice. 

As said above, Capability and Conduct are different processes - conduct is typically dealt with under disciplinary processes (when you "won't do" what is required), Capability processes apply when you "can't do" (i.e. training gap or some other reason eg disibility). The investigation they undertake is likely to identify whether there is a capability issue or you simply choose to disregard the requirements of your role.

Capability procedures, otherwise known as Performance Improvement Procedures, should be used by good employers to help employees reach the standard required - usually by putting a Performance Improvement Plan in place with clear objectives, training, coaching and support specified - followed up with regular check in reviews and ongoing feedback. Typically I will ensure my managers put these in place for 12 weeks (with 3 x 4 weekly reviews). If performance has not improved after 4 weeks, we issue a written warning. If performance is still insufficient at 8 weeks, we issue a Final Written Warning. At the 12 week review, we would dismiss if performance is still below expectations. I do expect my managers to document concerns informally approximately 4 weeks before entering into formal processes to give my employees the chance to improve without entering formal processes (something I'm very passionate about, although not legally required - I hate managers coming to me to talk about "getting rid" of an under-performer when they have zero documented evidence of coaching for improvement of giving feedback to the employee). Employment lawyers tell me that tribunals would not look favourably on performance related dismissals if employers can't demonstrate 4-6 months worth of performance management, but I rarely let processes run that long and make a commercial decision to usually terminate employment at the 12 week mark (unless there is a protected characteristic).

So, looking at your case, there is clearly an under-performance issue. As long as you don't state in investigation that you know what you should be doing, but just choose not to do it, then this will be dealt with as a Capability /  Performance Improvement matter - not conduct. I would recommend you say at this stage that you are disappointed that you've been taken down this formal route at this stage without any informal coaching or support from your line manager or QA to improve - that should push the buttons of your Head of HR.

Now here's the more dirty stuff?

• Do you have 2 years service? If not, and your employer has an agenda, they can fire you and you don't have any comeback at tribunal unless you have a protective characteristic and are claiming discrimination (are you gay, an ethnic minority, pregnant etc). 
• If you are in your probationary period, they may decide just to terminate your employment without following any Performance Improvement Procedure - I probably would, so be wary
• Employers will always tell employees being put on a Capability / Performance Improvement Procedure that this is being done to "help the employee achieve the performance levels required" - your employer might genuinely mean this, but (trade secret) there are 2 types of performance improvement procedures - those designed to get someone out the company and those designed to genuinely support someone to improve. You need to figure out which it is - based on how achievable the targets are they set and the level of support offered (remember that if performance doesn't improve to the required level you will be dismissed). If its a genuine process and you are confident you can achieve expectations, then you have no problem. If on the other hand you get the sense that you are being managed out with unfeasible expectations, I'd begin looking for a new job - they will take several months to get you out (during which you can be looking for a new role). Whilst you could consider a tribunal claim post dismissal, there are no guarantees of success and any payout would be significantly reduced if you found another job in the meantime.

I do hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of any more assistance.  

 

 

     

[gmoney]

On 8/19/2019 at 4:04 PM, gmoney said:

They've also announced that they are creating supervisory type roles underneath management that my boss has told me I'm basically a shoe in for, so that's a silver lining. 

Just found out I got this!

[Monkee]

It’s been a bit of an emotional day for me... but in a good way.

Just over three years ago I was made redundant. It was extremely upsetting because I’d only been in the job a couple of months having got out of another job that had literally driven me into the ground. But I didn’t realise at the time that it was the best thing to ever happen to me. I got an interim job in a pub and met the best people and made great friends.

It was almost a year later when I finally got a job that ticked all the boxes for me - it was closer to home, doing a bit of everything I enjoyed, and it was doing something that’s actually meaningful. I started working for a local children’s hospice. 

It was a bit daunting as I’d never worked in the charity sector and I thought a hospice was somewhere grim and full of death. I was totally wrong on that last part. It’s the complete opposite. It’s so full of joy and life and laughs. Not once have I woken up in the morning and not wanted to go to work.

Over the last two years we’ve been building a purpose-built hospice specifically for children. There isn’t one in North London. There are hospices that cater for children but they also care for adults too. The staff moved into the building in July and it is absolutely incredible. And seeing the joy on parents’ faces watching their children is just amazing.

Today we had the grand opening. It was opened by Sadiq Khan, Hugo Lloris and Jenna Schillaci. It was just a brilliant day. So many families were there and all the children got to play in the inclusive playground. There’s a wheelchair accessible swing, roundabout, see-saw and even a trampoline for wheelchairs. It meant ALL the children including brothers and sisters could actually play on the same things at the same time as each other.

It’s been a lot of hard work to get here and there’s more work to do to hire more staff and open more facilities but I love my job. I’ve been a bit emotional this evening looking at all the photos I’ve taken today and we were featured on both BBC London and ITV London news.

This is a long post but I just wanted to share my feelings. There are actually jobs out there that you can really love doing.

Also, if you feel like supporting, please give us a follow on social media - we’re Noah’s Ark Children’s Hospice on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. I’m the digital marketing manager so you’ll be boosting my targets if you do ❤️ Thanks for reading.

 

[King Pitcos]

Congrats, Monkee! But I want to hear more about this: 

44 minutes ago, Monkee said:

another job that had literally driven me into the ground.

What was this job??

[Monkee]

13 minutes ago, King Pitcos said:

Congrats, Monkee! But I want to hear more about this: 

What was this job??

I was working for a retail analysis company - still doing marketing/editorial/graphic design/social media but it was a big corporate. I went from it just being me to managing 3 people for no more money. Then 2 left and never got replaced so I was doing their work too. I kept asking either for help or for more money and they wouldn’t give me either. I was doing 14/16-hour days, had no social life, came home on a Friday, didn’t go out again until Monday.

The crunch came when an old friend from home took his life and I just crumbled. I was signed off for 3 months but I had to go back to work at 3 months otherwise my pay halved. Their way of then ‘easing me back into work’ was to take away everything I’d worked for over 8 years of being there. My assistant was now going into all the strategy meetings and making decisions. I was left with formatting PPTs and uploading blog posts to the website.

So eventually I got another job and I left my manager, me ex-manager and the head of the department with a farewell email telling them it was no thanks to them that I wasn’t sectioned (or worse) and I hoped they got management and mental health training before something worse happened in the future.

[SuperBacon]

Go on @Monkee!!!! Congrats and keep it COYS

[Monkee]

3 hours ago, SuperBacon said:

Go on @Monkee!!!! Congrats and keep it COYS

Met Hugo yesterday. He’s so lovely! Wanted to get a photo but he was being pulled from pillar to post doing interviews and stuff. Jenna was very cool though, chatted to her about the hospice for ages and got a photo. We might get the full women’s team up for a tour sometime too. COYS indeed!

[Monkee]

Any freelance graphic designers looking for some ongoing piece/project work? The charity I work for is looking to expand its team of designers and I know we have some on here so thought I'd reach out.

[I Bent My Wookie]

Went for a post PGCE job interview today to be told essentially my lesson wasn't good enough for the ability they need and that my content isn't strong enough to teach. 

Which is great when I've been placed in a grammar school with much higher ability students than this job for my new placement and I don't think I have the ability to teach that now. 

Nothing like having your confidence in everything you've been doing absolutely demolished in the first month in 2020 and being in a school and university that seemingly is setting you up to fail because they know you can talk but struggle with the background. 

Needed to ramble here as all my teacher friends are doing the stereotypical "it'll be better next time" now they've all landed their post degree jobs. 

[Rey_Piste]

On 1/22/2020 at 11:32 AM, Monkee said:

Any freelance graphic designers looking for some ongoing piece/project work? The charity I work for is looking to expand its team of designers and I know we have some on here so thought I'd reach out.

@John Matrix Might be the person you need to speak to there.

[Monkee]

11 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said:

@John Matrix Might be the person you need to speak to there.

Already on it. He was the first one I messaged.

[stumobir]

2 hours ago, Shy Dad said:

Went for a post PGCE job interview today to be told essentially my lesson wasn't good enough for the ability they need and that my content isn't strong enough to teach. 

Which is great when I've been placed in a grammar school with much higher ability students than this job for my new placement and I don't think I have the ability to teach that now. 

Nothing like having your confidence in everything you've been doing absolutely demolished in the first month in 2020 and being in a school and university that seemingly is setting you up to fail because they know you can talk but struggle with the background. 

Needed to ramble here as all my teacher friends are doing the stereotypical "it'll be better next time" now they've all landed their post degree jobs. 

Interviews are learning experiences as much as they are job opportunities. If you got this post then there would be 20 others feeling how you do now.  I know nothing about teaching but it sounds like they’ve given you some constructive feedback which is more than most get from an interview. It’s a big ask but try not to beat yourself up about it, use what they’ve said, apply it and go in to your next round of interviews/applications more confident and better prepared. You’ve come through far worse than one knock back from an interview. 

[Rey_Piste]

So in the post a pic thread I posted a fully shaved photo of myself and the reason for this is I have an interview tomorrow. The job is managerial, so I am having to at least turn up looking fairly presentable.