Ukraine / Russian War

[Keith Houchen]

Sanctions on the people won’t turn them against Putin, it’ll bolster the feeling of how evil NATO and the west are. The Putin regime aren’t going to say “Yeah ok, you’re hurting the poorest in our society so we will do as you say”, they’ll tell their people “Look what NATO tyranny is doing to you, they are evil and must be stopped or they’ll be making life even harder for you if we give them an inch on this”. Putin’s whole shtick is how alpha male he is and how embodies Russian masculinity, he isn’t going to show weakness to his people, he will make sure Russias enemies are the bad guys. Think of the leave EU campaign but ramp it up to hugely violent levels. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Keith Houchen

[LaGoosh]

It's not as simple as that. Putin's propaganda machine will do what it does but the Russian populace aren't idiots, a good portion of them know their media is bullshit and have access to other information and are against this war. The views within Russia are going to be all over the spectrum but if there's a combination of widespread poverty and all Putin's oligarch mates complaining it will have an effect. I don't have any idea if sanctions will end this war but it cannot be simplified down to "well that'll just make the Russians hate the West more". This whole thing is unfathomably complex and terrible. 

[Keith Houchen]

Putins approval rating is around the 70% mark. We aren’t talking Johnson levels of unpopularity, we’re talking about a well loved leader who has been in power for decades. Of course there will be opposition, but by and large he is supported and in some cases revered. I actually think failure to “Reclaim” Ukraine could be his downfall, not his attempt to do so. 

[Cousin Jim Bob]

1 minute ago, Keith Houchen said:

Putins approval rating is around the 70% mark. We aren’t talking Johnson levels of unpopularity, we’re talking about a well loved leader who has been in power for decades. Of course there will be opposition, but by and large he is supported and in some cases revered. I actually think failure to “Reclaim” Ukraine could be his downfall, not his attempt to do so. 

 

Russian people have also been queuing up at their banks trying to get their money out in fears the Russian banks will collapse.Terrified they will lose all their savings.

 

I would not be trusting any Putin approval rating right now too.

[Carbomb]

The thing is, if you look at the history of Putin's leadership, this escalation was inevitable. He's always positioned himself as a "strongman", and kept doing increasingly belligerent and aggressive things to prove it and keep kudos with his voter base. The problem there is that, in order to keep power, he was always eventually going to have to do things that risked taking Russia into war; Ukraine's refusal to be cowed by his increasing threats and sabre-rattling meant that he had to go to war in order to show he wasn't just all mouth and no trousers.

[Keith Houchen]

2 minutes ago, Cousin Jim Bob said:

 

Russian people have also been queuing up at their banks trying to get their money out in fears the Russian banks will collapse.Terrified they will lose all their savings.

And that will be the fault of NATO and the west because of their sanctions, Putin is the strong leader pushing back against their tyranny. 

[69MeDon]

1 hour ago, stewdogg said:

Maybe some of the 150 million Russian's can start doing something about their lunatic leader.

It's not just you but I have seen a lot of this the last couple of weeks. Like, "just do a revolution, guys!" Super easy, barely an inconvenience.

[David]

53 minutes ago, stewdogg said:

Maybe some of the 150 million Russian's can start doing something about their lunatic leader.

Should we hold you and your family responsible for Boris Johnson's antics then? Or Tony Blair's war on terror? Would that be fair? Maybe some of the 60 million English people can start doing something about their lunatic leaders, or we can hit them with severe financial penalties?

You realise how ridiculous such an idea is, right?

56 minutes ago, stewdogg said:

I'm interested in what you think would have been a measured response?

I already covered that. Hit state-owned entities in the pocket with financial sanctions. Hit the oligarchs who have benefited from Putin's rule and who cosy up to him with sanctions, hit the Russian government officials who have swanky apartments in London with financial sanctions.

As Keith said, Putin gives not a single fuck about Oleg the hard-working father of three who's savings have been decimated and who has been cut off from the global financial system. 

What he cares about are the state-owned cash cow entities and his rich friends who help keep him in power. 

Hit those types, not the average Russian citizen. These sanctions will see families go under, starve, fall into extreme poverty. And it'll all be on our hands, and the hands of our governments. Or should we not be held accountable for the actions of our wealthy elites and shite government?

[Cousin Jim Bob]

19 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

And that will be the fault of NATO and the west because of their sanctions, Putin is the strong leader pushing back against their tyranny. 

 

I think your underestimating them and missing what they are trying to do, they are desperately trying to get their money out before it disappears. They are maybe not naming Putin yet but they are using War! And blaming that for why their cards are suddenly not working.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Cousin Jim Bob

[stewdogg]

11 minutes ago, David said:

I already covered that. Hit state-owned entities in the pocket with financial sanctions. Hit the oligarchs who have benefited from Putin's rule and who cosy up to him with sanctions, hit the Russian government officials who have swanky apartments in London with financial sanctions.

As Keith said, Putin gives not a single fuck about Oleg the hard-working father of three who's savings have been decimated and who has been cut off from the global financial system. 

What he cares about are the state-owned cash cow entities and his rich friends who help keep him in power. 

Hit those types, not the average Russian citizen. 

We did that and it achieved absolutely nothing.

[LaGoosh]

15 minutes ago, David said:

Should we hold you and your family responsible for Boris Johnson's antics then? Or Tony Blair's war on terror? Would that be fair? Maybe some of the 60 million English people can start doing something about their lunatic leaders, or we can hit them with severe financial penalties?

You realise how ridiculous such an idea is, right?

That's how all wars and conflict have always worked in human history. The people suffer because of the actions and failings of the ruling classes.

[Factotum]

16 minutes ago, David said:

Should we hold you and your family responsible for Boris Johnson's antics then? Or Tony Blair's war on terror? Would that be fair? Maybe some of the 60 million English people can start doing something about their lunatic leaders, or we can hit them with severe financial penalties?

You realise how ridiculous such an idea is, right?

But we are. We are ultimately held responsible for our government's actions. 

[SuperBacon]

Sanction Russian football club owners and liquidate their clubs IMO.

 

[David]

7 minutes ago, Factotum said:

But we are. We are ultimately held responsible for our government's actions. 

In what way? Tell me how you or your family have been victim of financial sanctions for our government's actions?

[Chest Rockwell]

Just now, David said:

In what way? Tell me how you or your family have been victim of financial sanctions for our government's actions?

Who suffers from shit Brexit outcomes? It's certainly not the people who made it happen.