Infinity Land Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, BomberPat said: It didn't help that the majority of the bigger indie names were just brought in with existing characters and names in order to try and get some immediate "indie cred" off them, rather than allowing for the sort of character reinvention that Sami Zayn underwent. Other than El Generico* to Sami Zayn. Were there many indie names that went through much of a character reinvention? Adrian Neville = PAC. Prince Devitt = Finn Balor. Kevin Steen = Kevin Owens. Hideo Itami = KENTA. Most of them were just a name change and fitting their existing gimmick into the WWE box of acceptability. *I know they're not the same person 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 I've enjoyed every incarnation of NXT in one way or another. The early early stuff as a ridiculous competition was entertaining in the weirdest way. Then the Seth and Big E etc era. And then the ridiculous transformation into the Brooklyn shows and having guys and girls turn up in the Rumble as viable competition and Survivor Series and.. well, then Vince seemed to lose all interest in it. Presumably down to the failure to compete with AEW. And I can't even remember the last time I watched a full show, but then that also goes with RAW. But NXT was always a nice easy watch and I always thought 2 hours wouldn't be much of a problem but I think that coupled with AEW's emergence really made them lose sight of what they were in the first place and what made it so popular. I think back and I always found something to enjoy on ECW and had an interest in FCW etc and NXT felt like a continuation of those in many ways. And actually when I dip in and watch it now, it feels like it has gone back to the start. But when you've built it up to such heights, it's a very hard thing to go right back to being that level when there's a certain expectation. It should have been so much more than this. As I've said elsewhere recently, when you look at the Keith Lee moments against Lesnar and Reigns etc - THAT is what NXT could and should have been all about. But they (Vince) got so far up their own arses focusing on AEW and everything else that they caused themselves to self destruct and we've ended up where we are now. And that's all the more disappointing because they've got no one to blame for any of this but themselves. They had so much talent and potential for the future and most of it has just been thrown away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Infinity Land said: Other than El Generico* to Sami Zayn. Were there many indie names that went through much of a character reinvention? Adrian Neville = PAC. Prince Devitt = Finn Balor. Kevin Steen = Kevin Owens. Hideo Itami = KENTA. Most of them were just a name change and fitting their existing gimmick into the WWE box of acceptability. *I know they're not the same person 🤪 Most at least had something of a character arc; PAC went from generic babyface tag team wrestler to heel champion until Sami Zayn won his respect, and so on. They were simple stories, but they were stories that relied on the wrestlers involved growing and developing. Finn Balor and KENTA were maybe the first brought in purely with that sense of, "look at this guy, you know him from somewhere else, isn't it cool that he's here?" that they ran into the ground, but at least during their time there you also had the likes of Tyler Breeze, Tye Dillinger starting to get over, Baron Corbin and Bull Dempsey's feud, Blake & Murphy, the Women's division starting to pick up steam, so the show wasn't wholly "indie" wrestlers having indie matches in a WWE context the way it became. It was a fun mixed bag that was still more about story and character development than the kind of movefests that Cole and Gargano ended up having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theringmaster Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, air_raid said: They’ll probably replace the fish supper with bacon as a cost cutting measure shortly. Half of them are vegans ain't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 7, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2022 NXT was best when it had Derrick Bateman teaming with Percy Watson and Johnny Curtis being sleazy. That's a fact, and you can't argue with facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 The all women's season of NXT was hands down my favourite era, everyone working on it knew it was shite so they just had as much fun as they could with it. Plus Kaitlyn. 🥰 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted January 7, 2022 Awards Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, air_raid said: But from a fans perspective, and an enjoyment perspective rather than “what ratings were like up against AEW”, can someone fill me in as to when/how NXT went from being a brilliant show which I watched for years, which we all thanked Hunter for, to being a show derided as “gone to the dogs” even before the reboot, which people seem to blame Hunter for? I’ve lost a few steps. Pat summed up most of the reasoning for me. I won't repeat but I will quote: 1 hour ago, BomberPat said: By the time it was full-fledged Third Brand and Not Developmental, they lost their biggest selling point - logical, coherent stories with a satisfying conclusion. When you had guys like Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens feuding there, the story wouldn't outstay its welcome because one or both of them would get called up to the main roster at the end, and they could move on to the next thing, so it always felt fresh. But when it became clear that Johnny Gargano et al were never getting called up, the great start to the DIY break-up and feud got forgotten because it just dragged on and on and on with no end in sight. By the time I gave up watching NXT, it was because The Undisputed Era seemed to be in every single segment whenever I put it on, and hadn't grown or changed as characters at all in the entire time they were. Sami Zayn was once seen as the "face of NXT", and his run there lasted three years, during which time his character grew and evolved - The Undisputed Era were there for four years and the closest thing they did to changing was adding Roderick Strong. Even when they broke up, Cole was feuding with O'Reilly so they were still all over the show. I mostly gave up when they went live - the shows got clunkier, and not being on the Network the next day meant I fell out of the routine of watching it. When they went live, they also went to two hours, and I can't understate how much that extra hour diminished my interest in and enjoyment of it. Going right back to the Nexus / Kaval / Goldust Marries Aksana seasons, NXT was an hour and that was a massive part of its charm. Even the likes of Cole and Gargano weren't on there every single week when it was an hour, but when they doubled the runtime you couldn't get rid of the "same old" feel. EDIT: I think they also went a little too far down the "super-indie" rabbit hole of relying on you knowing who people were already. You didn't need to already be aware of Gargano, Ciampa, Owens or Asuka to get their characters within a few appearances. The likes of Keith Lee and Dijakovic weren't as lucky - they really relied on the factor of "you know this guy, here's this guy". I'm still as clueless as I was when he debuted as to what Kushida is. They gave him nothing except "used to be in Japan" and that's the impression he left on me. Edited January 7, 2022 by HarmonicGenerator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted January 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 7, 2022 It used to feel like an entirely different shoe because it had its own production people at Funn Sail, then presumably when Vince decided to put it opposite Dynamite he had to get Kevin Dunn et al involved. There's been some cracking matches down the years. That full episode that was just Nakamura Vs Sami Zayn was amazing, the Sasha/Bayley feud was hotter and better in NXT than it ever was on the main roster. Regal Vs Cesaro. Heck even Baron Corbin was better in that environment. I remember being really into a match he had against Joe. It was a great environment of up and comers being able to ply their trade and learn from some great, experienced wrestlers from Japan and the indies. I wonder whether Kushida will end up getting cut in time to be in this year's best of the super juniors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love-Wilcox Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 NXT was so engaging because we were all so invested in the development of the talent / characters involved. We knew it was developmental and so watching everyone grow, learn and improve became the main hook. The NXT Title wasn't just another belt but a sign that a character had been through his or her journey and were now ready for the "true prize" of being called up to the main roster. NXT was like a microcosm of the journey that all wrestlers go on throughout their entire careers. NXT died when getting called up became a death sentance. I could no longer get invested in the journey when I knew the destination was a scrap heap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 30 minutes ago, HarmonicGenerator said: EDIT: I think they also went a little too far down the "super-indie" rabbit hole of relying on you knowing who people were already. You didn't need to already be aware of Gargano, Ciampa, Owens or Asuka to get their characters within a few appearances. The likes of Keith Lee and Dijakovic weren't as lucky - they really relied on the factor of "you know this guy, here's this guy". I'm still as clueless as I was when he debuted as to what Kushida is. They gave him nothing except "used to be in Japan" and that's the impression he left on me. He also likes Back to the Future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 What's Alex Shelley up to? If Kushida goes I could 100% see Tone bringing them both in for the tag division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted January 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 7, 2022 He's in MLW at the moment. Hook them up with Sabin for some trios action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Statto Posted January 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, Merzbow said: What's Alex Shelley up to? If Kushida goes I could 100% see Tone bringing them both in for the tag division. He's living the weekend warrior life at the moment and seems to be liking it - he's either working full time as a physical therapist or possibly back in school to get a higher qualification in the field, I forget which. However, in A Sports Illustrated article about 3 months ago he said: “Right now, the independents are where I want to be,” Shelley says. “That’s not to say I wouldn’t go back to a big company. AEW looks amazing. I had a great experience in WWE/NXT, Impact is doing some great stuff and so is Ring of Honor. I miss New Japan so dearly. But I very much enjoy independent wrestling on a grassroots level." I reckon he'd take the call from Tony if it came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Weren't the MCMG meant to work a match as part of the initial AEW/Impact working relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Showtime Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 hours ago, jazzygeofferz said: That full episode that was just Nakamura Vs Sami Zayn was amazing Did that really happen? I can't recall that at all! Moving NXT to 2 hours did it for me. I was happily watching it every week before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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