The 2022 strip out Triple H's vision thread

[The Gaffer]

34 minutes ago, Kamran said:

Three of my nephews (aged 6, 9 and 12) have been big WWE fans for a long time. They get to watch both WWE and AEW through WWE Network/Fite.TV (my treat  ), for their birthdays at the end of last year, they all asked for AEW wrestling figures/t-shirts (with the exception of 1 Roman Reigns tshirt) rather than the usual WWE ones. The last time I spoke with them they said they've stopped watching WWE as it's so boring. I have to admit, I was surprised by that as I assumed WWE was aimed more towards the kids. Although their parents aren't that happy with AEW in terms of the language/violence so I think that could be an issue with attracting more younger fans as some parents will be put off by that.

Yeah, was hanging out with my 14 year old godson over Christmas and the first thing he wanted to talk about was Hangman/Danielson. 

I'm not doubting WWE is bigger with kids but I think if you've hit your teens then AEW is the cooler alternative now. Everyone in his year has access to it and if you're into your wrestling, it's what you're going for in a way that's probably not being adequately reflected in business yet this side of the Atlantic. 

[Chris B]

23 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

I don’t think it’s necessarily an age thing, but a consumer thing. I believe that it’s catered towards the “Just In Time” market. Us last generation are the boomers. We watched at a set time and watched a set format. The way content is consumed isn’t like that any more, it’s instant and now. It’s bite size and it’s on demand. 

Not sure how much I agree with the bite-size point, although I agree with the rest. People regularly consume multi-hour podcasts, boxsets and binges of shows, and I reckon that's at a higher level than ever before. The average length of movies has massively increased as well. If anything, AEW has shown that, even in wrestling, people are up for the long-haul storylines and show enthusiasm for them.

[Sphinx]

WWF was big in our middle school (8 - 12) during the Attitude Era. Obviously parents want something that's cleaner but, as a kid, that stuff's exciting and taboo. I guess parents are the ones spending money but that can still translate into buying video games, figures, and other merch and kids will find ways of watching it if they like it enough. 

I guess my point is I'm not surprised younger kids would like AEW. Especially not at 14 - kids are into all sorts at that age.

[BomberPat]

28 minutes ago, Chris B said:

Not sure how much I agree with the bite-size point, although I agree with the rest. People regularly consume multi-hour podcasts, boxsets and binges of shows, and I reckon that's at a higher level than ever before. The average length of movies has massively increased as well. If anything, AEW has shown that, even in wrestling, people are up for the long-haul storylines and show enthusiasm for them.

Yeah, there's a received wisdom that people's attention spans have got shorter and they want micro-content, but it doesn't hold up to the rise of binge watching, or the average run time of a major movie having increased massively; you can't tell me that the generation flocking to watch a 3 hour Avengers movie have a shorter attention span than people like me who still think anything above 90 minutes is a bit of a stretch.

What people want is to be able to watch things on their own terms, and while the WWE Network went some way to allowing that, wrestling as a whole still follows a live sport "appointment viewing" model. We know that appointment viewing works, because it still pays dividends for major sporting events, for shows like Strictly or Bake Off, or even for major TV drama, because people want to avoid spoilers, and/or they want the communal experience of sharing in watching something with others, either in person or remotely via social media.

The problem is that wrestling isn't hot enough, and rarely compelling enough, to be appointment viewing. AEW has managed it a couple of times - CM Punk's debut is as strong an example of it as wrestling has produced in years - but I don't think wrestling will manage to hit that mark consistently ever again.

So there is a question of whether a promotion could succeed by pivoting more to a streaming/on-demand/binge watching model - say, a Lucha Underground style show all released at once on Netflix - or a micro-content model of releasing individual matches to YouTube rather than building around three hour shows.

[Hannibal Scorch]

4 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

 

So there is a question of whether a promotion could succeed by pivoting more to a streaming/on-demand/binge watching model - say, a Lucha Underground style show all released at once on Netflix - or a micro-content model of releasing individual matches to YouTube rather than building around three hour shows.

There was a show called Dojo Pro on Amazon which was released in one go and was a tournament thing with the prize being an ROH title match. It flopped. Maybe if it had money behind it there maybe a market

[BomberPat]

CHIKARA attempted a similar thing with a season filmed in secret, and released a few shows at a time alongside their live shows. It was a fun idea, but the company was already pretty much in the doldrums in terms of broader fan interest and exposure. I don't think it's something that an independent promotion could just manage off their own back without some really impressive marketing and social media work, you'd basically need a streaming service to pick up the mantle first.

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, Chris B said:

eople regularly consume multi-hour podcasts, boxsets and binges of shows, and I reckon that's at a higher level than ever before.

Indeed they do, but it’s on their scheduling, not the TV or Radio company’s.  I think that’s the point I’m trying to make. It’s not about WWE being a long show, but it’s styling seems more suited now to small bite size clips that can be shared. 

[hallicks]

2 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

Indeed they do, but it’s on their scheduling, not the TV or Radio company’s.  I think that’s the point I’m trying to make. It’s not about WWE being a long show, but it’s styling seems more suited now to small bite size clips that can be shared. 

They get the bulk of their money for the TV rights for their shows. So it’s fine, if they can keep convincing NBC/Fox to fork out the cash for an ever dwindling, ageing TV audience, whilst the actual real target is the people consuming short clips via social media, which makes them very little money.

Having said that, they’ve diversified their income streams enough that they could probably handle TV rights plummeting, as long as they keep pumping out Saudi Shitshows and “Premium Events” or whatever PPVs are called now they’ve sold them P’cock. 

[Keith Houchen]

8 minutes ago, hallicks said:

They get the bulk of their money for the TV rights for their shows. So it’s fine, if they can keep convincing NBC/Fox to fork out the cash for an ever dwindling, ageing TV audience, whilst the actual real target is the people consuming short clips via social media, which makes them very little money.

Having said that, they’ve diversified their income streams enough that they could probably handle TV rights plummeting, as long as they keep pumping out Saudi Shitshows and “Premium Events” or whatever PPVs are called now they’ve sold them P’cock. 

I wonder how many watch the show live, as opposed to recording it or watching it on catch up? Plus it’s relatively cheap TV and advertisers still pay. You’re bang on about revenue streams though, as much as I can’t stand the rancid old fucker, nobody knows the business like Vince. He’s the one evolving in a business sense. In a physical sense, fuck knows what he’s evolving into. A sociopathic melted Spitting Image puppet of Michael Portillo or something. 

[Loki]

9 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

Indeed they do, but it’s on their scheduling, not the TV or Radio company’s.  I think that’s the point I’m trying to make. It’s not about WWE being a long show, but it’s styling seems more suited now to small bite size clips that can be shared. 

One thing I've noticed about WWE is that its feuds always look really cool when condensed down to 30 second promo videos.  Actually watching the whole of Raw is a fucking slog that I'm not sure anyone really DOES nowadays, but they definitely write certain bits with the idea of editing it out later into a short clip.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

15 hours ago, BomberPat said:

Yeah, there's a received wisdom that people's attention spans have got shorter and they want micro-content, but it doesn't hold up to the rise of binge watching, or the average run time of a major movie having increased massively; you can't tell me that the generation flocking to watch a 3 hour Avengers movie have a shorter attention span than people like me who still think anything above 90 minutes is a bit of a stretch.

What people want is to be able to watch things on their own terms, and while the WWE Network went some way to allowing that, wrestling as a whole still follows a live sport "appointment viewing" model. We know that appointment viewing works, because it still pays dividends for major sporting events, for shows like Strictly or Bake Off, or even for major TV drama, because people want to avoid spoilers, and/or they want the communal experience of sharing in watching something with others, either in person or remotely via social media.

The problem is that wrestling isn't hot enough, and rarely compelling enough, to be appointment viewing. AEW has managed it a couple of times - CM Punk's debut is as strong an example of it as wrestling has produced in years - but I don't think wrestling will manage to hit that mark consistently ever again.

So there is a question of whether a promotion could succeed by pivoting more to a streaming/on-demand/binge watching model - say, a Lucha Underground style show all released at once on Netflix - or a micro-content model of releasing individual matches to YouTube rather than building around three hour shows.

An excellent post. 👌

[BomberPat]

9 hours ago, Loki said:

One thing I've noticed about WWE is that its feuds always look really cool when condensed down to 30 second promo videos.  Actually watching the whole of Raw is a fucking slog that I'm not sure anyone really DOES nowadays, but they definitely write certain bits with the idea of editing it out later into a short clip.

That's something that was really clear at Wrestlemania - they book for the video package, not for the weekly TV.

Bianca Belair vs. Sasha Banks, when it became clear that was going to be the match, felt big. Every week of TV between the Rumble and Wrestlemania made it feel smaller by reducing it to "women don't get along/can they coexist" terrible booking, but then you got to Wrestlemania, and the package beforehand neglected all of that and just presented it as a huge, iconic match again. 

It's not new either - everyone remembers the "My Way" video packages for Wrestlemania 2001, but how many remember that the build to that match involved Debra being forced to be The Rock's manager?

[air_raid]

3 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

It's not new either - everyone remembers the "My Way" video packages for Wrestlemania 2001, but how many remember that the build to that match involved Debra being forced to be The Rock's manager?

Ironically the Debra stuff appears in the My Way video and most people still forget it ever happened due to the power of the rest of it.

[DavidB6937]

For forever, I'd gone without missing a single episode of RAW or Smackdown - at least whenever they were airing here - because in the back of my mind I had that feeling of anything could happen at anytime and I didn't want to miss those surprises etc.

Over the last couple of years that feeling has absolutely gone for the weekly shows. I can dip in and out of PPVs and feel like I've missed absolutely nothing in between. I can catch up on video packages or Youtube or whatever else and there's really no need to sit through hours of weekly stuff for literally no reward.

AEW captures the feeling I used to have with WWE. The excitement and the possibilities and everything like that. WWE have done a really good job at convincing me that their weekly shows really don't matter in the grand scheme of things and that's quite weird really. I hung on to SmackDown for much longer but even after the recent draft I've struggled a lot with that too.

Funnily enough I probably enjoy the PPVs more because I've not had to sit through all the shit beforehand. And that's weird right? Like surely I should need to tune in to the storylines and the developments etc but somehow that's just not what they sell.

[Ro_y Disco]

4 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Funnily enough I probably enjoy the PPVs more because I've not had to sit through all the shit beforehand. And that's weird right? Like surely I should need to tune in to the storylines and the developments etc but somehow that's just not what they sell.

Couldn't agree with your post more, especially this part! 

It's been well over a year since I've even tracked down a WWE TV match or segment. I think the last think was probably Nia Jax and "MY HOLE!"

In terms of watching something because it's actually good, that would be the original run of Firefly Funhouse segments and before that the first couple of months of AJ Styles and that was 2016!! That same year had Shane McMahon's return. I can't think of any surprises that have happened on WWE TV since then?