kieranjennings Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: He’s making the point that regardless how scummy a company is, you’ll find elements where they weren’t scummy. At least that’s what I got. Exactly - it's not black and white either way. WWE has paid for treatment for countless people to get help (not all who have worked that majority of their careers for them) but it doesn't mean they haven't failed in other areas. AEW has done some very good inclusive things (the Brodie Lee & Jon Moxley support etc.) but they still have had latent misogyny on their shows, made some dubious choices personnel wise and don't seem to show great concern for performer safety (the Matt Hardy ladder incident springs to mind). Both will need to continue to improve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieranjennings Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: He had cancer, they had no choice but to let him get treatment. They then used it as angle to give Dean Ambrose the worst cheap heat. Did they not support him when he was off? We don't see any of that but I assume they did. I would hope the angle was done with his consent but again is something that should have been done better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted November 16, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 16, 2021 WWE do some good things. I mentioned the rehab thing recently. It's not black and white. I think the difference for me so far is that if I think about it all, WWE is about 99% bad and 1% good and AEW about 90% good and 10% bad. Some of that might be longevity, most is because WWE are awful people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 One thing that may be worth pointing out is that the wrestling audience, by and large, isn't exactly the most socially aware at the best of times. Let's be honest, this little corner of the internet we have here is more an anomaly than the norm, isn't it? WWF/E and AEW to a lesser extent, have no real reason to go out of their way to clean up their act. Sure, they'll do or say something if it could really cause them problems, but how many fans in attendance at AEW shows even know what Jay Lethal was in trouble for? Or to that point, would even care if they did? How many of the people kicking up fuck on Twitter are actually spending money on the product? And do they represent a big enough number to really register with the company? I tend to believe that wrestling companies, much like other businesses on that level, react behind closed doors in the same way that Dana White and the UFC react in front of the cameras. Basically, if the fallout of any situation could affect the bottom line for the company they'll take action, especially if the person involved isn't a big dollar generator. But if it's something in that grey area where guilt isn't proven? Or someone who generates cash? They'll ignore it and bully the fuck out of anyone who tries to hassle them about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted November 16, 2021 Author Share Posted November 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: He had cancer, they had no choice but to let him get treatment. They then used it as angle to give Dean Ambrose the worst cheap heat. And they stood by him, supported him, and kept his spot. Sure, that’s the bare minimum an employer can do but it goes to Kieran’s point about finding decency in scummy wankers like WWE. They could have let him go but didn’t. They obviously get the residual goodwill PR from their “Selfless act”, much like AEW will from their Owen Hart T Shirts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Coconut Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: AEW will from their Owen Hart T Shirts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 16, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: And they stood by him, supported him, and kept his spot. Sure, that’s the bare minimum an employer can do but it goes to Kieran’s point about finding decency in scummy wankers like WWE. They could have let him go but didn’t. They obviously get the residual goodwill PR from their “Selfless act”, much like AEW will from their Owen Hart T Shirts But as you say, it was the bare minimum. If he was a mid card act, he'd have had the same treatment, though probably wouldn't get a push on his return. So again, what could you say was that decent. If they fired him, he'd have taken them to the cleaners at court. As to the Owen Hart thing. The goodwill here is fans finally being able to get merchandise and Martha feeling comfortable that a wrestling company will honor her husband. It's not bad PR, but I don't think it's this selfish act your making it out to be. Put this way, when Roman did his speech and went in for treatment, I didn't think WWE have done a great thing. It was the only thing they could do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Put this way, when Roman did his speech and went in for treatment, I didn't think WWE have done a great thing. It was the only thing they could do. I mean it is okay to actually give them credit when they're decent. There's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't take away from all the other shit they've done. Of course it wasn't the only thing they could do. They've proven time and again that they can be really shitty when they want to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted November 16, 2021 Author Share Posted November 16, 2021 27 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: But as you say, it was the bare minimum. If he was a mid card act, he'd have had the same treatment, though probably wouldn't get a push on his return. So again, what could you say was that decent. If they fired him, he'd have taken them to the cleaners at court. Would the mid card act have gotten the inspirational documentary detailing his recovery and the gushing praise? The cynic in me thinks that when he got ill, the lights went off in their heads about how they could spin it into a heartwarming tale with them coming out ace. Much like some tories really hope the queen dies soon so it’ll cover the media and take the focus from themselves. It’s the classic quote when Elvia died, “What a great career move” Had they not brought him back, the whole “Independent Contractor” thing would’ve kicked in and he wouldn’t win a case. But business comes first. 32 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: s to the Owen Hart thing. The goodwill here is fans finally being able to get merchandise That’s the entitlement I refer to, and the willingness to overlook shady goings on as long as they get what they want from fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 16, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Would the mid card act have gotten the inspirational documentary detailing his recovery and the gushing praise? The cynic in me thinks that when he got ill, the lights went off in their heads about how they could spin it into a heartwarming tale with them coming out ace. Much like some tories really hope the queen dies soon so it’ll cover the media and take the focus from themselves. It’s the classic quote when Elvia died, “What a great career move” Had they not brought him back, the whole “Independent Contractor” thing would’ve kicked in and he wouldn’t win a case. But business comes first. That’s the entitlement I refer to, and the willingness to overlook shady goings on as long as they get what they want from fans. As you say, they got a documentary out of it and good PR, when I think must agree, it was the least they could do. 25 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said: I mean it is okay to actually give them credit when they're decent. There's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't take away from all the other shit they've done. Of course it wasn't the only thing they could do. They've proven time and again that they can be really shitty when they want to be. Not with a big name. Sure, they have fired people for getting pregnant or being injured, but Roman is the guy they have been trying to base the company around. He was too valuable to them to treat like shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexy Dad Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, DEF said: Nah it's sort of WWE's fault. The relentless barrage of shitty things they have done has broken me so I have far less tolerance for wrestling scum. I know full well a lot of stuff I consume and enjoy is crap but I just draw the line after a certain point. Being a Dad to a young Women puts shitty behaviour towards women front and centre in my mind. Plus it's my perogative to spend my money how I wish and supporting something that genuinely bothers me and legit hurts many women is not how I want to spend it. AEW can get my money back any time they actually prove they give a shit about that sort of behaviour. It's the same as I don't buy Roman Polanksi films anymore. The idea of giving him money boils my piss. Yes he's a great filmmaker but that means very little to me as he's also a child rapist. Fair play. I was probably being a bit rash with my comment this morning regarding picking and choosing values and I think I just jumped to the comment about your daughter being upset by you choosing not to attend a show which felt quite heavy to me (I’m a Dad to a daughter myself) when we all almost have to turn a blind eye to so many travesties that our way of life is built on to function. I appreciate that a wresting company which you enjoy is not an essential though so if your enjoyment or support has gone then that’s entirely fair. Edited November 16, 2021 by Sexy Dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Nick James Posted November 17, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) Ric Flair seems to be slowly peeking his head out of the hole he crawled in to after the Dark Side of the Ring episode. From comments like Punk and Danielson have done nothing for AEW, to having a pop at Becky Lynch and now saying he's got one more match left in him. I know he's been desperate for years, but this seems desperate even for Flair. Edited November 17, 2021 by Nick James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCJ Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 From what I can gather, Ric Flair spent more money than he earned and most likely still needs the money while he’s seemingly cancelled from the major promotions. Wouldn’t be surprised if the whole Becky Lynch/Charlotte Flair thing is a work though. From the belt dropping incident, the heated exchange backstage and Ric’s comments about Becky. All when “two people who legit hate each other have a match at Survivor Series”. All seems a bit too coincidental. Like WWE are trying to re-enact a women’s version of Bret v Shawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted November 18, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted November 18, 2021 The Lynch/Charlotte thing definitely isn't a work (or at least wasn't, initially), but they're milking it for all it's worth, so it's a muddy grey area. Flair has a podcast to put over, that's all it is. He apparently was on really big money for his last WWE run, so it's not like when he was in TNA getting left behind by the tour bus after his card kept getting declined down the pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted November 18, 2021 Awards Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, LCJ said: Ric Flair spent more money than he earned MildShockPicard.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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