The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

[Supremo]

2 hours ago, wordsfromlee said:

From a kayfabe point of view, why would AEW hire that jobber who faced Abadon? It said it was her AEW debut and that she had a 0-5 record for 2020. You wouldn't see UFC signing a fighter who is on a 5-match losing streak.

Mark Hunt was given his first UFC fight coming off a five-fight losing streak.

CM Punk was also given a UFC fight after going 4-1 in his last five televised matches. Losing the Royal Rumble and a number of matches against The Shield on RAW and Smackdown, his only victory being against Billy Gunn. 😉

Also, from a kayfabe point of view it’s the easiest thing in the world to justify. In the accepted reality of Dynamite Tony Khan is a fight promoter. Promoters since the beginning of time have given their chosen stars easy fights to build them up. He’s recognised there’s money in Adadon so has positioned her to have a showcase match to build up the eventual Title fight.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Supremo

[The Gaffer]

2 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

You're allowed to stop believing this now you're a grown-up (presumably).

It depends what you class as burying.

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that they used Sting's WrestleMania program to dig up the Monday Night Wars again and rebury it with a renewed enforcement of DX - the red poppy of Attitude revisionism - dominance. 

The commentary on that match definitely sounds influenced to my adult ears. This wouldn't even crack the top 100 of fucking insane things we know WWE have actually done. 

[Magnum Milano]

Just now, Supremo said:

Mark Hunt was given his first UFC fight coming off a five-fight losing streak.

CM Punk was also given a UFC fight after going 4-1 in his last five televised matches. Losing the Royal Rumble and a number of matches against The Shield on RAW and Smackdown, his only victory being against Billy Gunn. 😉

That's completely misleading though because the UFC really didn't want to use Hunt, offering to pay his contract in full (which was bought when they purchased Pride if I remember correctly) rather than have him fight.  It was only when he turned down their offer did they use him.  Truth is if it was solely up to the UFC they would never have used Hunt (at least at that time).

[IANdrewDiceClay]

53 minutes ago, Supremo said:

CM Punk was also given a UFC fight after going 4-1 in his last five televised matches.

And he was a massive Mark Hunt.

[Supremo]

26 minutes ago, Magnum Milano said:

That's completely misleading though because the UFC really didn't want to use Hunt, offering to pay his contract in full (which was bought when they purchased Pride if I remember correctly) rather than have him fight.  It was only when he turned down their offer did they use him.  Truth is if it was solely up to the UFC they would never have used Hunt (at least at that time).

Oh really? I never knew that. Fair enough.

The Punk thing stands though. 1-4? Awful record to be getting a UFC fight!

[LCJ]

4 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

You're allowed to stop believing this now you're a grown-up (presumably).

WTF? How condescending. WWE don’t exactly have a history of treating former Crockett/WCW guys that well. Dusty Rhodes was made to wear polka dots and did more than his fair share of jobs (not to mention the gimmicks given to his sons). Vader was pushed as a badass in the main events in WCW but floundered in the mid card for most of his time in the WWF. DDP didn’t exactly have the greatest run in WWE either.

[DavidB6937]

34 minutes ago, LCJ said:

WTF? How condescending. WWE don’t exactly have a history of treating former Crockett/WCW guys that well. Dusty Rhodes was made to wear polka dots and did more than his fair share of jobs (not to mention the gimmicks given to his sons). Vader was pushed as a badass in the main events in WCW but floundered in the mid card for most of his time in the WWF. DDP didn’t exactly have the greatest run in WWE either.

Rhodes may have been given the polka dots and didn't have a huge run in WWF at that time but I wouldn't consider him buried. He certainly stuck around a long time later in his career considering how badly they treated him?!

And as for his sons - are you suggesting that Goldust wasn't one of the most memorable characters in WWF? And how many times did Dustin go back? Granted Cody struggled over the years (according to some) but I don't think it's like they didn't give him opportunities and different gimmicks etc. He had nearly a decade on the main roster in various attempts to get him over. He really only found himself on the indies as himself, but I still wouldn't consider him treated badly. He was never thrown out there by people as someone who should be doing so much better elsewhere.

Vader was a shame as he definitely had potential but I'm not sure if that was down to timing or anything.

DDP I can't really argue against.

[LCJ]

1 minute ago, DavidB6937 said:

Rhodes may have been given the polka dots and didn't have a huge run in WWF at that time but I wouldn't consider him buried. He certainly stuck around a long time later in his career considering how badly they treated him?!

And as for his sons - are you suggesting that Goldust wasn't one of the most memorable characters in WWF? And how many times did Dustin go back? Granted Cody struggled over the years (according to some) but I don't think it's like they didn't give him opportunities and different gimmicks etc. He had nearly a decade on the main roster in various attempts to get him over. He really only found himself on the indies as himself, but I still wouldn't consider him treated badly. He was never thrown out there by people as someone who should be doing so much better elsewhere.

With Vince’s monopoly, Dusty didn’t have a lot of choice but to work for WWE if he’d have wanted to have earned better money. Same for his sons. Cody actually did leave WWE after they lumbered him with the Stardust gimmick and spent a while on the indies and in Japan before AEW surfaced. If I was a wrestler and I was asked to have done the Stardust gimmick, I wouldn’t have been happy about it either. I would consider that alone as bad treatment and the final straw which I assume, Cody did as well hence why he left.

[unfitfinlay]

5 hours ago, wordsfromlee said:

From a kayfabe point of view, why would AEW hire that jobber who faced Abadon? It said it was her AEW debut and that she had a 0-5 record for 2020. You wouldn't see UFC signing a fighter who is on a 5-match losing streak. 

Speaking of Abadon, has there ever been a proper 'horror' gimmick done before in wrestling? There's been lots of spooky and supernatural gimmicks, and I know we have people like The Fiend and in the past guys like Kane, Undertaker, Boogeyman, but I wouldn't class them as horror as they were always presented like they were slightly toned down a bit.

Horror in wrestling always seemed to be done slightly campy and tongue-in-cheek. Like it was part of a comedy bit rather than trying to get actual scares.

Abadon has only made, what, four appearances? At that point Kane was a pure horror gimmick. He was an unstoppable masked monster who didn't seem to feel pain. It evolved past that, sure, but only because there's only so far a character like that can go.

Cornette certainly thought the Boogeyman was meant to be legitimately scary too. That's why he slapped Santino for not acting scared.

39 minutes ago, LCJ said:

WTF? How condescending. WWE don’t exactly have a history of treating former Crockett/WCW guys that well. Dusty Rhodes was made to wear polka dots and did more than his fair share of jobs (not to mention the gimmicks given to his sons). Vader was pushed as a badass in the main events in WCW but floundered in the mid card for most of his time in the WWF. DDP didn’t exactly have the greatest run in WWE either.

While that is true (at least some of it. Goldust is one of the best gimmicks of all time) it hardly proves that WWE were willing to sacrifice millions of dollars in potential revenue for "revenge" or to prove a point. They've always booked as if their fans are unaware of wrestling elsewhere and that people jumping ship need to be introduced within the context of WWE's current product. Ric Flair in 1991 is the only real exception, I can think of. Even the Invasion was a result of the Shane vs Vince storyline. It's not "revenge" as much as that they genuinely believe their hype.

I think they've also got the opposite problem that AEW do. While AEW seem to have different people booking different storylines, which can lead to things feeling disjointed (See the Dark Order reverting back to being a sinister cult for the Dustin segment, after months of being pure comedy) WWE has a big group booking everything, which means every decision is a compromise between that group. It's not surprising that they'd go with the simple, boring option of "Sting's from WCW. Let's make this WCW vs WWE!! Oh and we can bring out the NWO and DX!" rather than try to fight for anything that'd actually be creative or authentic to Sting's character.

[PowerButchi]

2 hours ago, LCJ said:

WTF? How condescending. WWE don’t exactly have a history of treating former Crockett/WCW guys that well. Dusty Rhodes was made to wear polka dots and did more than his fair share of jobs (not to mention the gimmicks given to his sons). Vader was pushed as a badass in the main events in WCW but floundered in the mid card for most of his time in the WWF. DDP didn’t exactly have the greatest run in WWE either.

And Steve Austin became one of the biggest stars in Wrestling history.

[LCJ]

4 minutes ago, PowerButchi said:

And Steve Austin became one of the biggest stars in Wrestling history.

Steve Austin wasn’t a top star in WCW. Neither was Cactus Jack for that matter.

[PowerButchi]

That's not what you said though. You said WWF\E didn't have a history of treating WCW alumni well. Then I gave an example otherwise. And then you gave an example opposite to your claim in the quoted post.

[DavidB6937]

1 hour ago, LCJ said:

With Vince’s monopoly, Dusty didn’t have a lot of choice but to work for WWE if he’d have wanted to have earned better money. Same for his sons. Cody actually did leave WWE after they lumbered him with the Stardust gimmick and spent a while on the indies and in Japan before AEW surfaced. If I was a wrestler and I was asked to have done the Stardust gimmick, I wouldn’t have been happy about it either. I would consider that alone as bad treatment and the final straw which I assume, Cody did as well hence why he left.

From the numerous interviews I've read with Cody over the years, I don't think he considered himself buried by the gimmick. He just wanted to go back to being Cody after a while and they didn't really want that for him. Stardust wasn't a terrible gimmick anyway. Cody as himself was quite boring a lot of the time, apart from the stuff with his family. If they wanted to bury him they wouldn't have given him a length main roster run with various different attempts at getting him over.

I'd argue the freedom post-WWE made him work harder, learn more about the business and smartly win over an anti-WWE section of the wrestling world. So good for him. But I don't think his WWE treatment was bad overall.

[LCJ]

16 minutes ago, PowerButchi said:

That's not what you said though. You said WWF\E didn't have a history of treating WCW alumni well. Then I gave an example otherwise. And then you gave an example opposite to your claim in the quoted post.

My original point was that people best known as the top guys in WCW (in this case, Sting) were prone to being buried (or at least under utilised) by WWE. There may have been a few exceptions (Flair being the obvious one) but as a whole, I would say that WWE have a history of burying and jobbing out the top guys from WCW. Vince saw Crockett/WCW as the enemy and he’d use any opportunity to job out WCW’s former top guys and make his promotion look like the superior brand.

[Nick James]

You can't say you're talking about wrestlers who were at the top of WCW and then use both Goldust and Cody Rhodes as examples then scoff when Steve Austin is suggested. 

What about The Big Show? He was WCW champion, or does he not qualify?