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1 hour ago, David said:

Gives him a chance to play the victim and claim that remainers are "running scared," and "don't believe in democracy" and so on.

Business as usual then.

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Here’s a vid of the actual incident occurring.

I love how he gets escorted with all the dignity of a school kid whose pissed himself in morning assembly.

”It’s an absolute failure. Could’ve spotted that a mile off”- and yet you didn’t, silly bollocks

Edited by WyattSheepMask

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6 hours ago, johnnyboy said:

Business as usual then.

In more ways than one it would seem, with him managing to make a roaring cunt of the so-called proper parties when it comes to the polls and indeed popularity with the voter;

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Also, I see that there's controversy over his party funding, although that's been somewhat buried under the news that some pillock threw a milkshake at him. As I said, if you didn't know better you'd believe it was an orchestrated perfectly timed distraction to not only shift some of the spotlight off the funding issue, but to make him look like the poor victim.

He's a savvy old cunt, is our Nige.

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8 hours ago, David said:

In more ways than one it would seem, with him managing to make a roaring cunt of the so-called proper parties when it comes to the polls.

And yet even with the almost total collapse of Tory and Ukip support they're still looking at Ukip 2014 numbers which could translate into less MEPs should a remain slanted vote be mobilised.

As I said, if you didn't know better you'd believe it was an orchestrated perfectly timed distraction to not only shift some of the spotlight off the funding issue, but to make him look like the poor victim.

Yup, and even if every penny via PayPal has come in from St Petersburg he'll still be the victim in that. It'll be the establishment wanting to thwart democracy and the biased MSM at fault.  You could write the statement tweet now with 98% accuracy.

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1 hour ago, johnnyboy said:

And yet even with the almost total collapse of Tory and Ukip support they're still looking at Ukip 2014 numbers which could translate into less MEPs should a remain slanted vote be mobilised.

A remain slanted vote won't be mobilised though, because that would involve the left actually getting their shit together, which seems nigh on impossible. In all honesty, with the numbers I've seen reported at remain rallies and protests shouldn't we be looking at the remain parties walking this election? How can what is basically a protest vote and a "party" that was chucked together and wasn't even registered until three months ago be sitting where they are, with general consensus being that they'll get the highest number of total votes?

This is an opportunity to show the UK and the rest of Europe that Britain wants to remain and be involved in the process, and it seems like we're going to see a party led by Nigel "where's my bus, bro?" Farage back in the mix?

How the fuck he, as someone who's been hyper-critical of the EU at every turn, can end up amassing enough votes to even possibly get back into the European Parliament is astounding, and a damning indictment of the current political scene in the UK.

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34 minutes ago, David said:

How the fuck he, as someone who's been hyper-critical of the EU at every turn, can end up amassing enough votes to even possibly get back into the European Parliament is astounding, and a damning indictment of the current political scene in the UK.

In my view, it's damning indictment of our population that we a huge proportion of voters who have for years been willing to send people into a parliament purely to disrupt and deride it. But then we have a proportion of people who think nothing of going to other people's countries, behaving like yobs and leaving their streets covered with vomit. I'm not aware of any of our neighbours that act like this, certainly nobody who comes here. These features seem to be something of English Exceptionalism. The sending of people like Farage to the EP appears to me to be a facet of that, as is the idea that everybody should contribute to the EU's budget but that we somehow deserve one third of our contribution back. I don't know why the EU wants to put up with us, really. We've been appalling neighbours since day one.

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53 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

In my view, it's damning indictment of our population that we a huge proportion of voters who have for years been willing to send people into a parliament purely to disrupt and deride it. But then we have a proportion of people who think nothing of going to other people's countries, behaving like yobs and leaving their streets covered with vomit. I'm not aware of any of our neighbours that act like this, certainly nobody who comes here. These features seem to be something of English Exceptionalism. The sending of people like Farage to the EP appears to me to be a facet of that, as is the idea that everybody should contribute to the EU's budget but that we somehow deserve one third of our contribution back. I don't know why the EU wants to put up with us, really. We've been appalling neighbours since day one.

I think that's a tad unfair to be honest.

I've lived in places like Spain, where the Brits are supposed to be the yobs and the rabble rousers, and in all honesty I've seen Dutch lads on holiday give out more grief than UK lads do these days. And don't even get me started on the fucking Irish. They're supposed to be these fun-loving, cheeky lad types who just love a pint and a laugh. Not the case at all. You can chuck the Turks in there as well. Get a group of Turkish males in a nightclub setting on holiday and shit is just as likely to kick off as it is with British lads.

I've also seen the Spanish cops enjoy the opportunity to batter down on any foreign lads who may be a bit loud and drunk. The way they roll up in their riot gear with their batons and pepper spray at the ready you'd think they'd gotten direct orders from Franco himself. They come in with the intention of provoking in many instances, and make our own UK police look like hippie peace makers in comparison.

I've also seen quite a bit of nationalism in the places I've visited, none worse than Italy, especially in the south. There's anti-EU sentiment in many European nations, it's just that our Government were the only buggers stupid enough to actually give the people a vote on the matter.

I've seen our lads go overseas for football games and act up, but I've seen Dutch, German, Spanish and Italians come here and do the same. Arseholes are arseholes, no matter what language they're talking.

People are people in the end, and I think it's unfair to claim we're terrible and everyone else is a bastion of decency and sensibility. That kind of stereotyping is almost as bad as saying we're the decent, hard-working stiff upper lip Brits who put up with the lazy scroungers who come here.

Too many shades of grey in reality for either to be the case.

Where we're being failed is by our political class. As I mentioned above, the reason someone like Nige is able to do what he does is because we don't have anyone savvy enough to go toe to toe with him. He's a throwback to a bygone era, but he's also a political veteran, he knows what he's doing.

The rest of our politicians simply don't match up, and that's more a reflection on them than it is him being anything special.

 

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I think I'm probably guilty of not separating the Irish out from the British there.

That might be a fair point regarding the other nationalities. I'm afraid it's the first I'm aware of it but I'm quite happy to put my hands up and say that I'm not a frequenter of the places which would be attractive to that type of partygoer. (Any type of partygoer, actually.)

Quote

People are people in the end, and I think it's unfair to claim we're terrible and everyone else is a bastion of decency and sensibility. That kind of stereotyping is almost as bad as saying we're the decent, hard-working stiff upper lip Brits who put up with the lazy scroungers who come here.

1) I didn't say "Brits are X". I spoke about "a proportion". 2) I didn't say "everyone else is Y". I said I wasn't aware of this characteristic of a proportion of Brits being a feature elsewhere. I'm happy to have been corrected but would've preferred you do so without the misrepresentation that I engaged in "that kind of stereotyping".

22 minutes ago, David said:

Arseholes are arseholes, no matter what language they're talking.

Yep. You won't find me arguing otherwise.

22 minutes ago, David said:

The rest of our politicians simply don't match up, and that's more a reflection on them than it is him being anything special.

I said the same thing the other night when somebody I'd never heard of was mentioned as a candidtate for the premiership. There's a definitely distinct lack of gravitas, weight, charisma, call it what you will. 

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8 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I didn't say "Brits are X". I spoke about "a proportion". 2) I didn't say "everyone else is Y". I said I wasn't aware of this characteristic of a proportion of Brits being a feature elsewhere. I'm happy to have been corrected but would've preferred you do so without the misrepresentation that I engaged in "that kind of stereotyping".

Yeah, I'd kind of moved onto the wider point by this stage, and wasn't referring to you in particular. Apologies if it seemed that way.

 

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I think what's fundamentally different about anti-EU movements in the UK compared to the rest of the Europe - in my admittedly limited experience - is, aside from the physical disconnect from mainland Europe, that in the UK anti-EU sentiment has always had the tacit approval of the "establishment". 

For as long as we've been members of the EU, we've been fed with bullshit headlines about bendy bananas, banning prawn cocktail crisps, and encyclopedia length regulations on how to sell lettuce. The only way the EU has ever entered the popular imagination is as a vague assemblance of busybodies and interfering jobsworths. That perception has had the tacit approval of the body politic, because there has never been an ounce of political will to represent the EU otherwise, or to really publicly acknowledge their role in British politics or British civic or cultural life at all.

In most other European countries, it seems that anti-EU movements tend to be more on the fringe or, at the very least, more overtly political in nature. 

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1 minute ago, BomberPat said:

I think what's fundamentally different about anti-EU movements in the UK compared to the rest of the Europe - in my admittedly limited experience - is, aside from the physical disconnect from mainland Europe, that in the UK anti-EU sentiment has always had the tacit approval of the "establishment". 

For as long as we've been members of the EU, we've been fed with bullshit headlines about bendy bananas, banning prawn cocktail crisps, and encyclopedia length regulations on how to sell lettuce. The only way the EU has ever entered the popular imagination is as a vague assemblance of busybodies and interfering jobsworths. That perception has had the tacit approval of the body politic, because there has never been an ounce of political will to represent the EU otherwise, or to really publicly acknowledge their role in British politics or British civic or cultural life at all.

In most other European countries, it seems that anti-EU movements tend to be more on the fringe or, at the very least, more overtly political in nature.

Some solid points there, and something I'd add to that is the media.

I've highlighted our media in this thread and others before, mentioning who owns and operates the newspapers we read on a daily basis, and the history they have of causing friction and uproar to suit their own ends. The carry-on with bendy bananas and other such shite is fed to the general population somehow, isn't it? They don't just pick that kind of shit up from nowhere.

It's the media. 

My experience is that the British media stands atop its own mountain of lies and bullshit in comparison to our EU neighbours. For sure, the media in Spain and Italy for example have their own agendas, but the slickness and brazenness of those agendas are nowhere near close to what we have in Britain.

We see it all the time, in various forms. whenever Germany play England at football, how many plays on the war do we get in sports headlines? Or when discussing the French with hints of cowardice and stereotyping?

How often do we see articles or headlines that paint EU leaders in a positive light? As beneficial partners? As actual people? Most of the time it's confrontation and suspicion that we're fed.

We can throw milkshakes at Farage and Robinson all fucking day, but until we realise that it's the media that provide these types with their platform, with their notoriety, we'll get nowhere. There's bigger factors at play than a failed banker and a guy who ran a moderately successful sunbed shop.

Our current political class is another matter entirely that needs completely rebuilding. We can't underestimate how much the sheer ineptitude of these chancers we have in power and in opposition has led to the success Farage and Robinson have seen in spreading their message.

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57 minutes ago, David said:

 

Where we're being failed is by our political class. As I mentioned above, the reason someone like Nige is able to do what he does is because we don't have anyone savvy enough to go toe to toe with him. He's a throwback to a bygone era, but he's also a political veteran, he knows what he's doing.

The rest of our politicians simply don't match up, and that's more a reflection on them than it is him being anything special.

 

I don’t think this is fair tbh. What we’re seeing with Farage is a situation where a politicians lies, dodgy private dealings & awful track history simply don’t matter to their supporters. It’s practically impossible to hold him to account because his supporters back him blindly, it’s almost ‘cult like’. How are you supposed to counter it? It’s easy to say ‘they’re not savvy enough’ but when you’ve got 1 side who can say whatever provable bollocks they like & it’s fine whereas the other side has to be squeaky clean then you’ve lost already.

If you think the answer is ‘the left’ trying to beat Farage at his own game then that’s simply dumbing politics down further to ‘who can tell the most popular lies’ & the right wing will ALWAYS ‘win’ as they’ve got fear & prejudice on their side. Add to this the fact that the likes of the BBC aim to provide ‘balance’ to their shows so for every NASA scientist they have on TV you also have someone who thinks the moon is made of cheese, they’re given equal time & the cheesy moon theory is given equal weight…’It’s easy for you to say this Mr NASA but there’s a large number of people who do believe the moon is made of cheese. Are you calling them liars? Do you think they’re stupid? Etc etc?’

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12 minutes ago, Dead Mike said:

I don’t think this is fair tbh. What we’re seeing with Farage is a situation where a politicians lies, dodgy private dealings & awful track history simply don’t matter to their supporters. It’s practically impossible to hold him to account because his supporters back him blindly, it’s almost ‘cult like’. How are you supposed to counter it? It’s easy to say ‘they’re not savvy enough’ but when you’ve got 1 side who can say whatever provable bollocks they like & it’s fine whereas the other side has to be squeaky clean then you’ve lost already.

I don't think we see our politicians do enough to discredit Farage. They may have the facts needed, but their delivery is piss poor, they are easily shouted down, and when Farage goes on a rant they just sit there smiling uncomfortably or they get flustered altogether as we saw on QT recently. I can't remember the woman's name, but when she mentioned Norway "no longer" being in the EU I knew right away that Farage would be all over that, and he was. She got flustered, she started babbling and he let her hang herself, so to speak.

Being a politician is about more than being able to know the facts and figures, it's about being engaging and knowing how to grab an audiences attention. Farage knows how to do that, the rest for the most part don't.

So while it's not altogether about beating them at their own game, it does involve a bit of savvy to get the job done. I mentioned previously that Farage was a throwback of sorts, and it would be interesting to see if his shit would fly with some of the more experienced operators of the past.

For example, we see UKIP's David Coburn try similar tactics up in Scotland, but he's found himself going up against the likes of Patrick Harvie or the political juggernaut that is Alex Salmond, regardless of what we may think of him now.

Harvie and Salmond have on many occasions ripped the fella a new arsehole and made him look ridiculous. They didn't use information that isn't freely available to other politicians down south, they just know how to deliver their arguments in a compelling fashion, rather than sending everyone to sleep as we often see elsewhere in the UK.

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It doesn't matter though. Farage has been challenged but as you rightly say, he will just rant away, tell some more pleasing lies & most importantly,his supporters simply don't care. You could have the truth delivered in the slickest, most charismatic fashion & it won't trump 'We can't control our own borders & 3 millions Romanians are coming to get free houses while you all struggle to make ends meet'.

This is 'post-truth' politics playing to an audience who are 'sick of experts'.

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