Brexit

[hallicks]

@Magnum

Quote

Never mind. 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by hallicks
Offensive.

[The King Of Swing]

I'm sure calling people mongs was a vote winner.

[hallicks]

Sorry. Was wrong to post that. 

[Mr_Danger]

On 5/14/2019 at 8:49 AM, BomberPat said:

The real question is who's funding them to be able to afford it.

At 3p per item delivered and the old Posties estimate who cares! I've got four kids bithdays in June/July, I'll be raking in a nice little bonus post election. 

On a side note one of the fellas in work actually used human rights as a reason we shouldn't be in the EU. He also thinks Nige tells it like it is and there's a media/pc brigade out to derail him.

[PJ Power]

On 5/14/2019 at 1:10 PM, JNLister said:

This is more general politics but is clearly a consequence of the Brexit events: Labour's decline means Sadiq Khan is no longer polling above 50 percent for next year's mayoral election. If that held, it would mean a second round run-off. In normal times, that's simple enough -- the Labour guy beats the Tory guy unless its Boris.

Problem is the Tories have collapsed so much in London that it's not guaranteed it would be Labour-Conservative in the second round, and instead it could be Khan against a Lib Dem or Green. That then becomes a crapshoot because your second preference only counts in London mayor if it's for one of the two people in the run-off, and you don't know that in advance. So it's quite conceivable you could get Leavers doing some combination of two from UKIP/Brexit/Conservative that means their second vote isn't counted, but hardcore Remainers doing some combo of Lib Dem/Green/ChUK and those second preferences causing one of them to win.

The system that's used for a run-off vote to elect the Mayor of London is a horrible hodge podge when voters casting their ballot can have no certainty that whoever they cast a second vote for, and effectively semi-disenfranches them. There's at least two ways to address that.

One is what is done in some other countries where they hold a primary ballot with all candidates available to vote for. Once all votes have been counted, if one candidate gets 50% +1 of all the valid votes they are deemed elected. Otherwise all but the two candidates with the biggest personal vote are eliminated and a secondary ballot is then held between these two to determine a winner, usually 2-4 weeks after the primary ballot. If a secondary ballot is needed, then the votes won in the primary ballot by the two candidates do not count or carry over. This is done, as an example, to elect the President of France.

The next is to undertake preference voting, which allows for a single polling day to happen. Namely you list the candidate(s) that you wish to see elected in order of your own preference e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. This can either be required of voters to rank all candidates from first to last (as last weekend's Australian federal election does for each constituency to their House of Commons) or allow voters to give preferences to as many candidates they want, even if its just "1" and that's it. If this looks familiar, it's almost the same as the "Alternative Vote" that was put to a referendum in the UK in 2011 and failed to pass. It's not too difficult to follow - if after the first round of vote tallying no candidate has reached 50% +1 of all valid votes cast then the candidate with the least votes is eliminated and their votes redistributed based on their next preference. If after redistribution no candidate has reached 50% +1 then the candidate now with the least amount of votes is eliminated with their preferences going to the highest ranked candidate that has not been eliminated etc. to the point that if there are just two candidates left and after redistribution neither of them still hasn't achieved 50% +1 of the valid ballots (this can happen when some ballots become "exhausted" meaning that the voter made a limited number of preferences on their ballot paper that when all of the candidates they ranked were eliminated, they no longer indicate whom they want their vote to transfer to and so it now no longer counts except to determine the 50% +1 amount, often referred to as a "quota"), then whoever has the highest amount of votes wins at this point. This is done to elect the President of Ireland and effectively a "single seat" version of STV voting (Single Transferable Vote) done in Northern Ireland for all elections except UK General Elections, and also for council elections in Scotland.

Edited May 20, 2019 by PJ Power

[David]

He'll be loving it. Gives him a chance to play the victim and claim that remainers are "running scared," and "don't believe in democracy" and so on. I sometimes wonder if stunts like this are done by right-wing types to try and make the "left" look fucking stupid.

[Chest Rockwell]

I'm pretty sure he would be doing and does do all of those things already.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Chest Rockwell

[Keith Houchen]

 This is the cunt who said he’d don Khahi and pick up a rifle if Brexit wasn’t delivered. He also said leave won “Without a bullet being fired” even though a remain MP was killed by a far right terrorist on the day Farage unveiled his racist “Breaking Point” poster. 

And yet people will lap it up. Throwing milkshakes isn’t escalating the tension, it’s reacting to the tension. 

The only thing I dislike about fascists getting milkshakes thrown at them is I’d rather punches were thrown at them. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Keith Houchen

[WyattSheepMask]

Here’s a vid of the actual incident occurring.

I love how he gets escorted with all the dignity of a school kid whose pissed himself in morning assembly.

”It’s an absolute failure. Could’ve spotted that a mile off”- and yet you didn’t, silly bollocks

Edited May 20, 2019 by WyattSheepMask

[David]

6 hours ago, johnnyboy said:

Business as usual then.

In more ways than one it would seem, with him managing to make a roaring cunt of the so-called proper parties when it comes to the polls and indeed popularity with the voter;

Also, I see that there's controversy over his party funding, although that's been somewhat buried under the news that some pillock threw a milkshake at him. As I said, if you didn't know better you'd believe it was an orchestrated perfectly timed distraction to not only shift some of the spotlight off the funding issue, but to make him look like the poor victim.

He's a savvy old cunt, is our Nige.

[David]

1 hour ago, johnnyboy said:

And yet even with the almost total collapse of Tory and Ukip support they're still looking at Ukip 2014 numbers which could translate into less MEPs should a remain slanted vote be mobilised.

A remain slanted vote won't be mobilised though, because that would involve the left actually getting their shit together, which seems nigh on impossible. In all honesty, with the numbers I've seen reported at remain rallies and protests shouldn't we be looking at the remain parties walking this election? How can what is basically a protest vote and a "party" that was chucked together and wasn't even registered until three months ago be sitting where they are, with general consensus being that they'll get the highest number of total votes?

This is an opportunity to show the UK and the rest of Europe that Britain wants to remain and be involved in the process, and it seems like we're going to see a party led by Nigel "where's my bus, bro?" Farage back in the mix?

How the fuck he, as someone who's been hyper-critical of the EU at every turn, can end up amassing enough votes to even possibly get back into the European Parliament is astounding, and a damning indictment of the current political scene in the UK.

[Ronnie]

34 minutes ago, David said:

How the fuck he, as someone who's been hyper-critical of the EU at every turn, can end up amassing enough votes to even possibly get back into the European Parliament is astounding, and a damning indictment of the current political scene in the UK.

In my view, it's damning indictment of our population that we a huge proportion of voters who have for years been willing to send people into a parliament purely to disrupt and deride it. But then we have a proportion of people who think nothing of going to other people's countries, behaving like yobs and leaving their streets covered with vomit. I'm not aware of any of our neighbours that act like this, certainly nobody who comes here. These features seem to be something of English Exceptionalism. The sending of people like Farage to the EP appears to me to be a facet of that, as is the idea that everybody should contribute to the EU's budget but that we somehow deserve one third of our contribution back. I don't know why the EU wants to put up with us, really. We've been appalling neighbours since day one.

[Chest Rockwell]

Yeah I think the only other nation with a worse reputation as tourists is probably China.

[David]

53 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

In my view, it's damning indictment of our population that we a huge proportion of voters who have for years been willing to send people into a parliament purely to disrupt and deride it. But then we have a proportion of people who think nothing of going to other people's countries, behaving like yobs and leaving their streets covered with vomit. I'm not aware of any of our neighbours that act like this, certainly nobody who comes here. These features seem to be something of English Exceptionalism. The sending of people like Farage to the EP appears to me to be a facet of that, as is the idea that everybody should contribute to the EU's budget but that we somehow deserve one third of our contribution back. I don't know why the EU wants to put up with us, really. We've been appalling neighbours since day one.

I think that's a tad unfair to be honest.

I've lived in places like Spain, where the Brits are supposed to be the yobs and the rabble rousers, and in all honesty I've seen Dutch lads on holiday give out more grief than UK lads do these days. And don't even get me started on the fucking Irish. They're supposed to be these fun-loving, cheeky lad types who just love a pint and a laugh. Not the case at all. You can chuck the Turks in there as well. Get a group of Turkish males in a nightclub setting on holiday and shit is just as likely to kick off as it is with British lads.

I've also seen the Spanish cops enjoy the opportunity to batter down on any foreign lads who may be a bit loud and drunk. The way they roll up in their riot gear with their batons and pepper spray at the ready you'd think they'd gotten direct orders from Franco himself. They come in with the intention of provoking in many instances, and make our own UK police look like hippie peace makers in comparison.

I've also seen quite a bit of nationalism in the places I've visited, none worse than Italy, especially in the south. There's anti-EU sentiment in many European nations, it's just that our Government were the only buggers stupid enough to actually give the people a vote on the matter.

I've seen our lads go overseas for football games and act up, but I've seen Dutch, German, Spanish and Italians come here and do the same. Arseholes are arseholes, no matter what language they're talking.

People are people in the end, and I think it's unfair to claim we're terrible and everyone else is a bastion of decency and sensibility. That kind of stereotyping is almost as bad as saying we're the decent, hard-working stiff upper lip Brits who put up with the lazy scroungers who come here.

Too many shades of grey in reality for either to be the case.

Where we're being failed is by our political class. As I mentioned above, the reason someone like Nige is able to do what he does is because we don't have anyone savvy enough to go toe to toe with him. He's a throwback to a bygone era, but he's also a political veteran, he knows what he's doing.

The rest of our politicians simply don't match up, and that's more a reflection on them than it is him being anything special.

 

[Ronnie]

I think I'm probably guilty of not separating the Irish out from the British there.

That might be a fair point regarding the other nationalities. I'm afraid it's the first I'm aware of it but I'm quite happy to put my hands up and say that I'm not a frequenter of the places which would be attractive to that type of partygoer. (Any type of partygoer, actually.)

Quote

People are people in the end, and I think it's unfair to claim we're terrible and everyone else is a bastion of decency and sensibility. That kind of stereotyping is almost as bad as saying we're the decent, hard-working stiff upper lip Brits who put up with the lazy scroungers who come here.

1) I didn't say "Brits are X". I spoke about "a proportion". 2) I didn't say "everyone else is Y". I said I wasn't aware of this characteristic of a proportion of Brits being a feature elsewhere. I'm happy to have been corrected but would've preferred you do so without the misrepresentation that I engaged in "that kind of stereotyping".

22 minutes ago, David said:

Arseholes are arseholes, no matter what language they're talking.

Yep. You won't find me arguing otherwise.

22 minutes ago, David said:

The rest of our politicians simply don't match up, and that's more a reflection on them than it is him being anything special.

I said the same thing the other night when somebody I'd never heard of was mentioned as a candidtate for the premiership. There's a definitely distinct lack of gravitas, weight, charisma, call it what you will.