Brexit

[JNLister]

9 hours ago, mikehoncho said:

Divisive as it has been Brexit is also highlighting the wrong in the EU, namely that the parliament is elected however they don't have the final say in things as the unelected EU commission can over-ride any (God I hate this phrase) meaningful vote.
 

That's not the case. There's three parts to the EU:

* The European Parliament, which is directly elected by the public.

* The Council of Ministers (officially the Council of Europe), which is the relevant government minister from each country for the topic at hand. (Usually that's an elected politician. Ironically the main exception would be if the UK sent a minister who is in the House of Lords.)

* The European Commission, which is one person from each country, nominated by their national government. Each nominee has a hearing with a committee of MEPs which can issue a "negative opinion", meaning the country in question gets an opportunity to nominate someone else instead. That's usually taken because after the hearings, the entire Parliament votes on whether to accept or reject the Commission as a whole. Once it's in office, the full set of commissioners can be removed by a two-thirds vote of the Parliament.

 

The Commission proposes new laws. Beyond that, it doesn't actually have any decision-making powers.

The Council and the Parliament both consider the proposed laws and suggest amendments. Generally the Council and Parliament have to agree a final text and both vote to approve it before it becomes law -- neither can override the other.

The main exceptions are for some laws on competition and the single market, where the Parliament makes a report with its opinion/suggestions, but the Council  has the final say. 

 

Parliament votes are just a straight majority of MEPs.

Depending on the subject, Council  votes either have to be unanimous, or done through qualified majority voting. How the latter works depends on the type of vote, but when it's on a proposed law, it means you need votes from at least 16 of the 28 ministers and they have to be from countries making up at least 65% of the total EU population. In practice that means you'd need three or four big countries joining together to block something everyone else wanted.

 

So everyone who votes on a law is either directly elected as an MEP, or is a national government minister (which almost always means being a directly elected politician who is in the party that was elected into their national government.) 

Everyone who proposes new laws is nominated by a national government (which itself has been elected) and then approved/rejected/removed by the directly elected Parliament.

Edited May 23, 2019 by JNLister

[Loki]

I mean, neither the Cabinet nor the Prime Minister in this country are directly elected to those positions.  I see the Council as the equivalent of the Cabinet.

[David]

8 hours ago, JNLister said:

Everyone who proposes new laws is nominated by a national government (which itself has been elected) and then approved/rejected/removed by the directly elected Parliament.

I'm still not happy with the idea of seeing new laws proposed by the people who are nominated by the people the public nominate, rather than proposed by the actual people the public nominates.

I'm a huge fan of decentralisation (within reason obviously), which is why I'll never agree with the way the EU operates. We already have enough fuckabouttery with the set up we have in the UK without more layers of it on a European level. 

[The King Of Swing]

 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

There is a massive parade of Tory grandees on the BBC all putting the boots to May. The quivering jelly of rage in human form Mark Francois is currently stamping on her ashes. 

[Onyx2]

10 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

The quivering jelly of rage in human form Mark Francois is currently stamping on her ashes. 

My MP spreading joy and light to the world as always. 

[Factotum]

In the end she cries for herself. Sums her and that party up.

[David]

So, who's next? That's the real question.

[Factotum]

I have a sneaky feeling it will be Gove or Hunt. Both are seen as fairly moderate, with Gove being a Brexiteer yet not stabbing May in the front and back. I still think the MPs will curtail Johnson's aim to be leader. So many of them utterly hate him.

All in all, it'll be someone horrible.

[Hannibal Scorch]

Jeremy Hunt just announced he is in the running for leader

[Factotum]

He must read this thread

[JNLister]

Boris Johnson just said he'd leave on October 31 without a deal if they haven't passed a deal by then. Which means there's a reasonable shot of several MPs resigning the Conservative whip and him being unable to govern. It's even possible they might vote no confidence to try to force an election, which would create the intriguing situation of Change UK MPs having to decide whether it's more important to stop a no-deal Brexit or stop an election where Corbyn could well become PM and they'd probably all lose their seats.

[Factotum]

Corbyn might trump Boris by failing upwards. The irony would be delicious.

[courageous]

If the tories were thinking rationally (yeah I know), regardless of anything else they wouldn't give BoJo the nod. 

A relatively slim majority in a heavy remain constituency... Come the next election, you would end up with a strong chance of the PM not being an MP

[JNLister]

This could be trivia or it could be constitutionally significant. As far as I can tell, Disraeli was the last person to become Prime Minister between elections and not have an official majority (whether alone or through a coalition/confident & supply deal) when taking office. Tories + DUP currently have 323 of 650 seats, so they only have a working majority because of Sinn Fein's absence.

EDIT -- Disraeli was the last to do so when replacing a PM of the same party. There was a case in 1905 where the Conservative PM resigned and the Liberals took over as a minority government. (The Conservatives knew they were heading for defeat at an upcoming election and gambled that putting the Liberals in with limited parliamentary power for a bit might expose their party divides and let the Conservatives get back in at the election.)

Edited May 24, 2019 by JNLister