hallicks Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 I'm not keen on Lib Dems due to their 2010-2015 austerity enablement tenure, however I wouldn't yell at the guy handing leaflets out at the station to fuck off and respect democracy. I wanted to go back and hug the poor bloke. You don't need that at 7am. Was it always like this? Makes me very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Not always, no. Â I used to deliver leaflets for the Lib Dems during elections when I was a teenager and people were generally pretty polite, even when they refused to take a leaflet. Â People are a lot angrier on both sides (or all sides) nowadays. Â I do think, with some justification, people who voted to Leave feel like the political classes are fucking them over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 23, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 23, 2019 Given how this mess has played out, they should've held another non-binding referendum to ask what sort of Brexit people would want if it did go ahead, options only "Deal or No Deal". That would shut up the hard Leavers all trying to play this as a zero-sum game and claim all of it for their side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted May 23, 2019 Moderators Share Posted May 23, 2019 39 minutes ago, Loki said: I do think, with some justification, people who voted to Leave feel like the political classes are fucking them over. Well, you can say the exact same thing of remain voters too. Lots of bullshit politics all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Being in the south west region, but working away in Kent at the moment I put my postal vote in weeks ago. I will freely admit I was swayed to vote for Lord Andrew Adonis, because of his name. I did my due diligence and he is anti Brexit, speaking about issues that align with my own views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 23, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 23, 2019 A big part of why this has all gone tits-up is because they've allowed people who shouldn't have much power to dictate the narrative. The Brexiters have gone on about how this was "the biggest exercise in democracy in British history" because of the turn-out, but others have failed to challenge them with the simple fact that a win of 52% to 48% is not a huge political mandate. They should've been challenged on their attempts to, as I mentioned before, make it into a zero-sum win, and get everything their way via a narrow margin. There are a lot of people that Brexit screws over, and what the Leave side should've done from the outset was attempt to work with Remain voices to come up with solutions that might mitigate or even negate the impact of Brexit on those people. That would've shown they actually care about what happens to people in this country, rather than getting their agenda through to satisfy their basest political and social impulses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Carbomb said: The Brexiters have gone on about how this was "the biggest exercise in democracy in British history" because of the turn-out, but others have failed to challenge them with the simple fact that a win of 52% to 48% is not a huge political mandate. Yeah, but both sides were always going to play it that way regardless of the result. If we'd seen a win for remain by that margin do you think we'd be giving the time of day to those who voted to leave and who claim that it's not a huge political mandate? Of course not. We'd be telling them that they got their silly vote, Farage and his pals lost, so bugger off and get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 23, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, David said: Yeah, but both sides were always going to play it that way regardless of the result. If we'd seen a win for remain by that margin do you think we'd be giving the time of day to those who voted to leave and who claim that it's not a huge political mandate? Of course not. We'd be telling them that they got their silly vote, Farage and his pals lost, so bugger off and get on with it. Normally, I'd say that might be the case, but given how many people have turned out to be Brexiters, particularly MPs and other political figures, I'm more convinced now we'd get a lot of pressure to campaign for EU reform. Going from how the Brexiters have behaved post-referendum, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been the last we'd hear about it. Although they'd probably be going on about how the ref was fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Normally, I'd say that might be the case, but given how many people have turned out to be Brexiters, particularly MPs and other political figures, I'm more convinced now we'd get a lot of pressure to campaign for EU reform. Going from how the Brexiters have behaved post-referendum, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been the last we'd hear about it. Although they'd probably be going on about how the ref was fixed. That's my point though, it wouldn't have been the last we heard about it from either side. It's the same with the Scottish independence referendum as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehoncho Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Carbomb said: A big part of why this has all gone tits-up is because they've allowed people who shouldn't have much power to dictate the narrative. The Brexiters have gone on about how this was "the biggest exercise in democracy in British history" because of the turn-out, but others have failed to challenge them with the simple fact that a win of 52% to 48% is not a huge political mandate. Wales voted for devolution in 1997 on a tighter margin than that though; 50.3% in favour, to 49.7% opposed, & it stood. Smaller fish, I grant you, but if it's tight margins you want, then ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehoncho Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 And for a little light relief, this is Mrs May's Brexit defined: Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 23, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, David said: That's my point though, it wouldn't have been the last we heard about it from either side. It's the same with the Scottish independence referendum as well. True. Either way, it does show how much the quality of political debate has lowered, if it ever was high in the first place. Both sides have been arguing in very bad faith, IMO, although I think the right-wing side of Leave more so than any of the Remain side, and because of how long it's gone on and how personal it's got, people of both stripes are now even more entrenched and tribal, wanting more to be right than what's good for people. 1 hour ago, mikehoncho said: Wales voted for devolution in 1997 on a tighter margin than that though; 50.3% in favour, to 49.7% opposed, & it stood. Smaller fish, I grant you, but if it's tight margins you want, then ... Yeh, but Blair had a habit of not listening to any dissenting voices, and now look what's happened. That said, not knowing enough about grassroots Welsh politics, I would be interested to know how the winning side would have dealt with the concerns of those who didn't want devolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, mikehoncho said: And for a little light relief, this is Mrs May's Brexit defined:   Nice bit, but what the fuck is up with those stupid subtitles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehoncho Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Loki said: Nice bit, but what the fuck is up with those stupid subtitles? That did spoil it, but the context of the bit is about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) Not really.  It's funny but it's not accurate.  It's more like "Who wants to leave Burger King and go eat elsewhere" 6 people raise their hand. "Ok, good now where shall we go eat instead?  I'll make a reservation." "NO EATING, LEAVE MEANS LEAVE" "But we need some sort of plan, I mean we're all hungry so surely we - " "TRAITOR, WHY CAN'T WE JUST LEAVE. I DIDN'T VOTE FOR A MEAL I JUST WANT TO LEAVE." "But it's raining  :(" Edited May 23, 2019 by Loki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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