CTXRussomark Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 He did one in the Power Plant and was allegedly going to debut it on TV in the match with Nash at Starrcade 97 but Nash no-showed the PPV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 7, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 7, 2015 What's mad is, Nash couldnt lift the Giant the month after (even though he'd did the powerbomb with ease in the prior summer), because of all the weight the Giant had put on. Imagine if he'd have connected with the moonsault? Those two should not have been doing months like that to each other at that point. Â Its pretty heartbreaking to look at Starrcade 97 and the card they could have done, but didnt. They could have probably could have done a stadium for Hogan vs Sting. It was at that point the hottest PPV in history. Everything from the match lineup, to the finishes, to not exploiting how hot the PPV was pretty much summed up WCW at that point. No Flair on the card, Randy Savage in a 2 match six man tag. Scott Hall wasnt wrestling, so it would have been pretty simple just to slot Hall in for Nash and still give the fans a decent name bout. No Rey Mysterio either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznor Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Its pretty heartbreaking to look at Starrcade 97 and the card they could have done, but didnt. They could have probably could have done a stadium for Hogan vs Sting. It was at that point the hottest PPV in history. Everything from the match lineup, to the finishes, to not exploiting how hot the PPV was pretty much summed up WCW at that point. No Flair on the card, Randy Savage in a 2 match six man tag. Scott Hall wasnt wrestling, so it would have been pretty simple just to slot Hall in for Nash and still give the fans a decent name bout. No Rey Mysterio either.  It was bloody dreadful. I remember having a moan about it a while back so being the lazy fucker that i am, might as well just paste & repeat myself;  Starrcade 97's a bit like that for me too. In absolute terms, of course it's not the worst, but relatively speaking, and taking all circumstances into account, it doesn't get much poorer. Nothing obviously needs said about Sting/Hogan, but we were also let down with Flair/Perfect and Raven/Benoit, both which could've been great. No Nash/Giant either, and not even a replacement match even though Hall was there. Eddy/Malenko was at least a step up from their ECW wankathons, but still lacked any excitement. Luger/Buff went on forever and slowly drained your will to live, and 'pre-Goldberg' Goldberg and Mongo were putting on a clinic. On top of that you had no Rey jr or Jericho (even though that would've been a perfect opportunity to sow the seeds of his heel turn), no luchadors, Savage hidden away in multiman filler, no sign of half the midcard - Finlay, Booker, Disco, Faces of Fear etc. It was just such a limp show, and it couldn't have happened at a worse time with such a big audience. I can't imagine too many of the newcomers would be too impressed. -----  - Big Show done a top rope missile dropkick at least once in the WWF btw, against Viscera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted July 7, 2015 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 7, 2015 What's mad is, Nash couldnt lift the Giant the month after (even though he'd did the powerbomb with ease in the prior summer), because of all the weight the Giant had put on. Imagine if he'd have connected with the moonsault? Those two should not have been doing months like that to each other at that point. Â Its pretty heartbreaking to look at Starrcade 97 and the card they could have done, but didnt. They could have probably could have done a stadium for Hogan vs Sting. It was at that point the hottest PPV in history. Everything from the match lineup, to the finishes, to not exploiting how hot the PPV was pretty much summed up WCW at that point. No Flair on the card, Randy Savage in a 2 match six man tag. Scott Hall wasnt wrestling, so it would have been pretty simple just to slot Hall in for Nash and still give the fans a decent name bout. No Rey Mysterio either. Could Bret have debuted at Starrcade or was the referee gig part of a no compete? Given that he wrestled at Souled Out, I'm thinking they just didn't use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Nick James Posted July 7, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 7, 2015 I don't believe there's video footage or anything. It's just a line that I remember dem wans trotting out all the time back in the day, and I thought it fitted in with the tone of the last page or so of this thread. I don't even know if it's true, but you'd hear it all the time on forums in the early 2000s to justify ... I can't even remember what! He mentioned it on Jericho's podcast that (I think) Hogan saw him do the moonsault and went ballistic at him because 'a giant should never leave his feet'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Your Fight Site Posted July 7, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 7, 2015  I don't believe there's video footage or anything. It's just a line that I remember dem wans trotting out all the time back in the day, and I thought it fitted in with the tone of the last page or so of this thread. I don't even know if it's true, but you'd hear it all the time on forums in the early 2000s to justify ... I can't even remember what! He mentioned it on Jericho's podcast that (I think) Hogan saw him do the moonsault and went ballistic at him because 'a giant should never leave his feet'.  This from the guy who has a career-defining moment in slamming André? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 7, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 7, 2015 That body slam wouldn't have been career defining if Andre was doing 619s as set up moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited)  On the OVW front, JR's Ross Report used to be great/terrible for hyping up people from there who didn't turn out to set the world on fire. I spent 2002 convinced that when Shelton Benjamin debuted, he'd be the equal of Lesnar. It was the equivalent of watching NXT and telling your mates who's going to be a main eventer when they get to the main roster.   JR's at least always stuck with his instinctive Benjamin love. It's cute, reminds me of when you catch a footballer who's under 20 play a blinder so you follow their entire career, consistently hyping that player to anyone who'll listen, all the way into relative obscurity  Even on Wrestle Kingdom 9, JR still referred to Shelton as "one of the finest pure athletes" or something. I'm not sure what he ever meant by pure. Edited July 7, 2015 by sj5522 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted July 7, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 7, 2015 Could Bret have debuted at Starrcade or was the referee gig part of a no compete? Given that he wrestled at Souled Out, I'm thinking they just didn't use him.   I imagine the logic was "We're going to pop a monster buyrate off Hogan vs Sting, the impact of adding Bret's in-ring debut to that buyrate might be marginal, pushing Bret Hart's first match for WCW could gain another huge buyrate later." Which would have made sense, if Bret's first PPV match wasn't an underpushed "I respect you actually" middle-of-Nitro storyline with Ric Flair, which was nowhere near pushed as being the main reason to buy Souled Out.  Although someone who edited Bret's wiki page reckons he had a 60-day no-compete clause. I find it odd that Bret's contract would include that given that it was a 20 year deal intending to last into a non-wrestling role and reduced salary upon his retirement, and was designed to be a "you're a lifer" situation. Unless it was a stipulation of Bret's release.... which still strikes me as weird. I dunno. If I had Bret's book to hand, I'd see if he mentions the reason in the delay of his wrestling debut, but I don't.   He mentioned it on Jericho's podcast that (I think) Hogan saw him do the moonsault and went ballistic at him because 'a giant should never leave his feet'.  This from the guy who has a career-defining moment in slamming André?   Is it not completely obvious that the context is a giant shouldn't choose to leave his feet?  Reminds me of when Razor said to big Kev re : Diesel doing a leapfrog in every match "Man, why are you doing a leapfrog? You're the biggest guy in the company. Let them run into you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 8, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2015  Why is a 500lb man doing a drop kick  30 seconds in.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kue05CYVG10   Is it not completely obvious that the context is a giant shouldn't choose to leave his feet? Reminds me of when Razor said to big Kev re : Diesel doing a leapfrog in every match "Man, why are you doing a leapfrog? You're the biggest guy in the company. Let them run into you."   Very true. I'd have said that the only time the Giant/Big Show should ever have needed to do a moonsault is in his biggest match ever, in the main event at Starrcade/Wrestlemania, in a huge grudge match for the title against his biggest challenge ever, near the end, after he's thrown everything including the kitchen sink at him, chokeslam & WMD, and the guy still kicks out of the pin. Then it's time for a Limit Break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hall mentions this as well in his podcast with Zbyszko analysing Hogan vs Warrior. He questions why Hogan would sleep, avoiding contact, when he's a brick shithouse. Then Hogan pops up and lamps a careening Warrior with a clothesline, so at least he concedes it's a setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 8, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Yeah, but the whole appeal of Hogan/Warrior was that Hogan had finally come up against (barring Andre and Earthquake) someone exactly like him - big powerhouse with unstoppable momentum when he gets going, starts spazzing out and becoming invulnerable when he takes too much damage. Both Hogan and Warrior were brick shithouses, so it's not unreasonable for Hogan to want to try and actually out-wrestle/fight Warrior. Â Besides, it was face vs. face - such matches are usually done as contests of one-upmanship or just trying to prove who's the better wrestler. It was OK for Hogan to sell for Warrior in that way, because Warrior went on to sell for him in a similar way. Edited July 8, 2015 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted July 8, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2015 Â Could Bret have debuted at Starrcade or was the referee gig part of a no compete? Given that he wrestled at Souled Out, I'm thinking they just didn't use him. Â Â I imagine the logic was "We're going to pop a monster buyrate off Hogan vs Sting, the impact of adding Bret's in-ring debut to that buyrate might be marginal, pushing Bret Hart's first match for WCW could gain another huge buyrate later." Which would have made sense, if Bret's first PPV match wasn't an underpushed "I respect you actually" middle-of-Nitro storyline with Ric Flair, which was nowhere near pushed as being the main reason to buy Souled Out. Â Although someone who edited Bret's wiki page reckons he had a 60-day no-compete clause. I find it odd that Bret's contract would include that given that it was a 20 year deal intending to last into a non-wrestling role and reduced salary upon his retirement, and was designed to be a "you're a lifer" situation. Unless it was a stipulation of Bret's release.... which still strikes me as weird. I dunno. If I had Bret's book to hand, I'd see if he mentions the reason in the delay of his wrestling debut, but I don't. Â He didn't have a no compete clause (strictly speaking no one actually does). There was a clause letting him out of the contract in the first year, as long as he gave notice. The notice actually expired the month after Survivor Series, right before what would be the D-Generation X PPV. Bischoff actually agreed to delay Bret's WCW debut, so that he'd be free to work that PPV for Vince. Â It's the one thing that annoys me with the "Bret was going to turn up on Nitro with the Title" stuff. He couldn't. WCW weren't even allowed to say "foreign objects". There was no way that Time Warner would let them use a wrestler that was still under a WWF contract. Â To be honest, I think politics played a part. I totally get the logic of "Hogan vs Sting is a monster draw anyway. Let's save Bret for next month" but it did feel like his legs were being cut off before he'd even started. Bret vs Hogan at Souled Out would've done major money, and been logical given the controversy at Starrcade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted July 8, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2015 It's the one thing that annoys me with the "Bret was going to turn up on Nitro with the Title" stuff. He couldn't. WCW weren't even allowed to say "foreign objects". There was no way that Time Warner would let them use a wrestler that was still under a WWF contract. Â Me too. Shawn even used the line "Bret Hart is still under contract until November 30th" the week of the infamous midget Bret debacle. Vince wasn't worried about Bret going to WCW with the belt, he just wanted to make him drop the belt for the PPV audience, simple as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 8, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Something that always gets lost in the Montreal story is that Bischoff, the week before Survivor Series, was angry at the WWF for trying to ruin Hogan's TV movie by airing a Best of Survivor Series featuring Hulk Hogan IN HIS PRIME! special. And he'd promised "a earth shattering surprise next week." That must have had Vince pooing himself. Turns out the surprise was actually that Bret had "joined the nWo", just they didnt have him on Nitro. Bischoff always planned to reveal that Bret was the newest member of the nWo the night after the Survivor Series. Bischoff wasn't as innocent in all of this as he makes out. He had his shit stirring head on at the time. Edited July 8, 2015 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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