NXT - Post NXT Takeover discussion in progress

[King Pitcos]

17 minutes ago, Supremo said:

There's probably a discussion to be had for when WWE have delivered their most logical or satisfying conclusions to storylines. Unfortunately, the first one that came to my mind was Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania 30, and every report suggests that was a complete accident that went against everything they originally had planned!

That’s absolutely a discussion worthy of its own thread: What have they done right? Not in terms of business, but for each of us as a viewer. In the last twenty years (so from about the Kurt Angle/Stephanie McMahon romance), how many big storylines or feuds have we not been upset by? It must be loads, right, otherwise we’ve either wasted the four or five thousands hours we’ve spent watching it in that time, or what we’re watching for is something other than enjoyment.

[LaGoosh]

5 minutes ago, King Pitcos said:

That’s absolutely a discussion worthy of its own thread: What have they done right? Not in terms of business, but for each of us as a viewer. In the last twenty years (so from about the Kurt Angle/Stephanie McMahon romance), how many big storylines or feuds have we not been upset by? It must be loads, right, otherwise we’ve either wasted the four or five thousands hours we’ve spent watching it in that time, or what we’re watching for is something other than enjoyment.

So in that spirit, which storylines of the past 10 years have you found to have both an enjoyable build and satisfying conclusion?

[King Pitcos]

1 minute ago, LaGoosh said:

So in that spirit, which storylines of the past 10 years have you found to have both an enjoyable build and satisfying conclusion?

Start the thread, man!

[Statto]

Has Drake always been as dribbly as he's been since this angle began? Gobbing all over the place at moment,, bless him.

[Supremo]

Christ.

I think that was part of what made NXT so great in the glory years - they were the best at simple, logical storylines. Sami Zany winning the title, Sasha and Bayley, DIY and the Revival, Nakamura and Samoa Joe, even Shayna and Kairi.

It felt like stories had a beginning, middle and end, then people naturally moved on, either to new feuds or graduating to the main roster. It’s already been touched on before but there’s definitely a case that the worst thing that happened to NXT was it becoming a,” proper,” brand.

Two or three years ago, I bet the Drake Maverick storyline would’ve played out as well as that amazing WWE.com vignette had it. A simple story of a man fighting for his job and overcoming the odds, rather than lucking his way into the final on a technicality, losing, but then getting the nod for at least trying his hardest. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Supremo

[DavidB6937]

I feel like it was pretty much inevitable that people would end up moaning about NXT and its 'glory years' because that's what wrestling fans do really. Nothing stays golden forever, and we decide to shit on something eventually. Which is a shame, but that's what we are. It's quite the fascinating thing to watch unfold. I really don't think NXT has changed that much over the years. Sure, there's a few missteps - and it'd be difficult to defend something like the Gargano/Ciampa feud, for example - but on the whole they do still take a much simpler approach to things than anything main roster.

But hey, we're a tough bunch to please, and we love watching stuff just to pick it apart a lot of the time. That's something that's definitely not new.

[King Pitcos]

NXT was always on borrowed time, really. Look at how many posts praising it in 2014-18 have a “knowing Vince” type comment in there. Due to lack of big-visibility alternatives, it somehow became seen as the opposition to WWE. That was never going to last. When AEW came along, being actual opposition to WWE that still featured half-decent production values and was still aimed entirely at the niche audience, NXT was a bit fucked.

And that was only compounded by AEW’s launch occurring in the three thousandth year of the everlasting Gargano/Ciampa ft Adam Cole feud.

[BomberPat]

When NXT was at its best, it was still a developmental territory, albeit one that they made a conscious effort to dress up as an "alternative" product - when they first brought in Jimmy Jacobs, his initial role was in helping establish the presentation of NXT to look less like the main roster, and more "indie".

So you had the appeal of something feeling different to the staid production and presentation of main roster WWE, with the novelty of seeing talent that you'd never normally have expected to see in a WWE context, and an emergent women's division that was actually treated seriously.

More importantly, though, you got short-term, logical storytelling. If you go back and look at most praise for NXT in 2014-16, it was praise for logical booking and coherent stories, with match quality (outside of Takeovers) usually as an aside. Most of that came from it being pre-taped, and it being a development territory. Pre-tapes means that you're locked in to a few weeks of storytelling at a specific pace, rather than rewriting everything on a whim and losing the feel of the thing, and it being a development territory meant that there was a logical end point for every single story - eventually, at least one part of the story would be called up to the main roster. Sami Zayn vs. Kevin Owens wasn't able to drag on endlessly like Ciampa/Gargano/Cole has, because their time in NXT was necessarily limited. No one was able to outstay their welcome. And block taping meant that it wasn't the same people being featured on TV every single week.

I barely watch NXT at all any more, but every time I do it feels like Undisputed Era are all over the show, having not changed as characters in the slightest in at least two years.

[Loki]

Well, I liked the conclusion of the Drake Maverick storyline, unlike everyone else apparently.

That's the most invested in a match I've been for ages, really wanted him to win and was gutted when he lost.  He told such a great story as well.  So when Trips came out and gave him a contract, I was made up.  He gets to stay, they have a new masked foreigner to stick into Lucha House Party / give a decent run to, and everyone's happy.

Not everything has to lead somewhere hugely complex - the whole tournament was a fun bit of programming that produced some great moments.  More of that, less Gargano please.

[HarmonicGenerator]

In terms of NXT going downhill, I can only speak for myself when I say that I enjoyed and never missed an episode of NXT from 2015 until late last year because:

- It was an hour long

- It was on a Wednesday night in America, and Thursday was an easy day to watch it

- The roster regularly changed up as people moved on - you were sad to see them go but rarely did people outstay their welcome or usefulness.
 

As of late last year, it became twice as long, wouldn’t turn up on the Network here til Friday which meant I couldn’t watch it until Saturday (and that became a choice of either NXT or Dynamite - I didn’t have time for both) and the roster more or less stabilised - there’s still a bit of variety but compared to a few years ago it’s stagnant. For comparison, those two Brooklyn shows I rewatched for Take On A Takeover where I think only two of the people on the 2016 card were the same as 2015, and 2019 where virtually every TakeOver had the same match as the main event.

I can’t stress enough how much the second hour was a factor in me gradually tuning out and then turning off completely. That hour on a Thursday was the perfect length of wrestling show at the ideal time of the week for me - I could make time for that, almost without fail. That second hour knocked that out of sync and I stopped watching, then dropped the Network entirely this spring, and to be honest I don’t miss it. A two hour NXT doesn’t feel like twice as much of what I enjoy, it just feels like the hour I enjoy stretched out to twice the length.

[DavidB6937]

1 hour ago, Loki said:

Well, I liked the conclusion of the Drake Maverick storyline, unlike everyone else apparently.

That's the most invested in a match I've been for ages, really wanted him to win and was gutted when he lost.  He told such a great story as well.  So when Trips came out and gave him a contract, I was made up.  He gets to stay, they have a new masked foreigner to stick into Lucha House Party / give a decent run to, and everyone's happy.

Not everything has to lead somewhere hugely complex - the whole tournament was a fun bit of programming that produced some great moments.  More of that, less Gargano please.

I really loved it. It was great to have a feel good story - and yes I understand why some people are a little cynical - and it really worked with him as the plucky underdog. They had a lot of different guys who they introduced and needed to push, so I have no issue with him losing, and winning the title wasn't really the end goal for him. It was about earning his spot and winning everyone over. Plus it's fucking Spud. I love the guy. I have for more years than I care to think of. Seeing him on a grand stage like this never gets old.

Agreed on the tournament in general - I thought everyone put in a good shift and I enjoyed all of the matches.

[tiger_rick]

1 hour ago, Loki said:

Not everything has to lead somewhere hugely complex 

What's hugely complex about the guy who has been getting over how much winning would mean to him then winning? It's as simple as it gets. Isn't Trips having to give him the consolation prize to show what a good guy he is more complex than the obvious outcome?

[King Pitcos]

The biggest thing I’ve taken from the Drake Maverick matches the last few weeks (I’ve not watched last night’s yet) is how fucking tiny he is. It’s one thing to look small compared to the AOP and R-Truth and Big Show, but he’s like a child even in comparison to small cruiserweights. I think the plucky underdog thing absolutely suits him at the moment, I just can’t ever imagine him believably beating people on the main roster. I hope that they can convince me otherwise, but I reckon his best shot at fame is still as the smarmy little opportunist.

[Loki]

6 hours ago, tiger_rick said:

What's hugely complex about the guy who has been getting over how much winning would mean to him then winning? It's as simple as it gets. Isn't Trips having to give him the consolation prize to show what a good guy he is more complex than the obvious outcome?

I was referring to the "where do they go with him from here" comments.  The tournament was a great bit of booking, it doesn't need to lead to anything imo.  He got what he really wanted, which is to stay in WWE.  Winning the tournament was just a means to an end.  He'll be back to being off tv probably, but it was still a great storyline.

[simonworden]

Surely he could chase the title, there's more mileage in him trying to win the belt than there is holding it I feel. If/When we get arena shows again I would loved to have seen them play on his friendship with Strowman perhaps throwing in a tag title win before Spud gets turned on to heel up Braun for a showdown with Roman.