Paid Members BomberPat Posted February 13 Paid Members Share Posted February 13 18 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Growing up bombarded with messages like this from a variety of sources across the cultural landscape, to view the erosion and outright violation of someone's sexual agency as nothing more than a bit of fun at worst and a comedic mishap at best, it's not surprising that insufficient comprehension of what consent entails, both by men who breach it or women who defend said behaviour, has been so endemic. I think what's worse than it being played for laughs is the extent to which various romance films, TV shows and the like have depicted persistence and ignoring boundaries as somehow romantic, that the way to a woman's heart is just to keep pursuing her until she eventually says yes. That, as much as sexist jokes and objectification and titillation, has contributed to those aspects of the culture. To bring it back to Vince, and to comments by people like Kevin Nash - I don't know who first said the line that everything is secretly about sex, except sex, which is secretly about power, but lately I tend to see a lot of cultural failings rooted in our inability to reckon with issues of power and systems. Especially in America, where a combination of the fact that talking about power dynamics that can sound a bit too much like scary Marxism, and their culture - especially on the right-wing - being profoundly individualistic, they don't like the idea that anyone but themselves can have bear any responsibility for their actions, or that any external factors can impact on someone's decision-making. When it comes to broader politics, it means pattern recognition that should be identifying systemic corruption and inequality instead misfires and creates conspiracy theories, and when it comes to consent, they can't frame it as anything but yes/no, so anyone who entered into a relationship of any kind with Vince McMahon was de facto consenting, because there's no appreciation of the enormous power imbalance that relationship entails, or the pressures that somebody like Vince McMahon can place on somebody. It also raises the other two ugly aspects of Nash's response - one being that by consenting to a relationship, even if we overlook the duress she was placed under to do so, she consented to everything that Vince subsequently did to her, which is the logic of marital rape. The other is financial - the idea that Vince's victims are either only after his money, or that Vince's actions are excusable because they got or are going to get his money. It seems to start at the assumption that the victims are acting dishonestly, and work backwards from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted February 16 Paid Members Share Posted February 16 More coming out reminding us that this isn't just about Vince. Ashley Massaro's friend talks about how WWE execs knew, and Stephanie McMahon in particular was involved in covering it all up. And a reminder that WWE, when this broke, claimed they never knew about it, and deliberately conflated it with the concussion lawsuit to make out she'd recanted it. While also, by the sounds of things Meltzer has said, briefing journalists privately that she wasn't credible (which he then concentrated on when reporting it, because he's a gullible, useful idiot for them). It is very weird seeing this all get confirmed after all this time. I keep getting notifications about that twitter thread when stuff happens. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted February 21 Paid Members Share Posted February 21 Cena comments on it: Appearing on the Howard Stern Show, Cena was asked about the allegations against Vince and how Cena handles them. Stern called the allegations "hot water."  "I don't think it's complicated to talk about. It's complicated to listen to. That's why I don't necessarily put a lot of time and equity into it. There’s still a long way to go. I can say this, I’m a big advocate of love and friendship and honesty, and communication, in the same breath, I’m also a big advocate of accountability. If someone's behavior lies so far outside of your value system that the balance shifts of, 'I can't operate in a world where this works.' That's the end result of being accountable. Right now, I’m gonna love the person I love, be their friend. 'I love you, you have a hill to climb.' There is the saying of, 'You don’t know who your friends are until shit hits the fan or your back is against the wall.' That doesn't make any of what's going on any easier to swallow. Just telling someone you love them, it’s a hill to climb, and we’ll see what happens.' That's that. It sounds so cliche, but it has to be one day at a time. I've openly said, I love the guy, I have a great relationship with the guy, and that’s that. It's largely my construct of operating with honesty and communication. Those are strong leads to handling any problem or achievement. The whole thing is super unfortunate and it sucks. It deals with an individual I love and an entity I love. I want everyone to have the experience that I have," said Cena. "Not only do I tell a friend that I love them, but I switch to the entity and say, 'How can I help? "How can I help?" fucking hell John, he's a rapist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted February 21 Paid Members Share Posted February 21 I'm very disappointed in so many people in wrestling at the minute. No idea why. My standards are so low, but Cena sounds like the biggest arse licker I've ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 He's absolutely fucked that one hasn't he? Don't get me wrong. I know it must be difficult to find out a guy you've been that close to and looked up to and who basically gave you the world is THAT much of a monster (assuming he didn't know) BUT there are ways of dealing with that. Acknowledge the past. You can't change that. You can't change your experiences with someone. But you can say how absolutely shit all of this is. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinc Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 40 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: Cena comments on it: [bilge] What an impossibly stupid statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted February 21 Paid Members Share Posted February 21 I definitely didn't have Randy Orton giving a more nuanced, human, empathetic response to this sort of thing than John Cena on my bingo card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) Randy Orton's response was the most authentic I've seen. Just read like a bloke who's got nothing to hide, isn't playing personal politics, and just gave his opinion. Orton is a treasure these days. Cena is an alien.  Edited February 21 by d-d-d-dAz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarlettChad Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I mean, Cena WAS The Protoype. Maybe he's just a cyborg created to spout WWE Propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 16 minutes ago, TheScarlettChad said: I mean, Cena WAS The Protoype. Maybe he's just a cyborg created to spout WWE Propaganda. They needed to program him better then because I genuinely don't understand half of what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted February 21 Paid Members Share Posted February 21 11 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said: They needed to program him better then because I genuinely don't understand half of what he said. Cena always talks in weird corporate drone/ motivational speaker shit robot mode. Except for when it's time to absolutely bury his opponents in a promo, where he briefly becomes human again and calls everyone Jack for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I honestly hadn't a fucking clue what Cena was on about. Was he trying to deflect or is that just how he talks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Wrestle Me were fantastically accurate describing Cena as basically a fucking robot incapable of understanding emotions in reality. He's a fucking weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lorne Malvo Posted February 21 Paid Members Share Posted February 21 I know it's a reality show and edited to fuck, but anyone who watched Total Bellas could tell you Cena was a really weird emotionless black hole of a human being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarlettChad Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, LaGoosh said: Cena always talks in weird corporate drone/ motivational speaker shit robot mode. Except for when it's time to absolutely bury his opponents in a promo, where he briefly becomes human again and calls everyone Jack for some reason. You forgot rubbing the bald spot. And saying "Fine Speech" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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