SuperBacon Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 1 hour ago, patiirc said: Appreciate your response, disagree with it given the amount of people who've said it allowed them to come out. That's great, and anything that supports people coming out is incredibly welcome, but that wasn't the original message behind the song was it? It's a bit like me saying that Russell Crowe in Gladiator made me realise I fancied men, when that wasn't what the film intended... Actually maybe on second thoughts, that WAS the message behind the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: That's great, and anything that supports people coming out is incredibly welcome, but that wasn't the original message behind the song was it? It's a bit like me saying that Russell Crowe in Gladiator made me realise I fancied men, when that wasn't what the film intended... Actually maybe on second thoughts, that WAS the message behind the film. Queer readings of texts is hardly a new thing. In some cases, stories were written with queer themes in mind and, other times, they weren't but they have themes that resonate strongly with queer experiences. Bear in mind, many of these things were coded as such because of the might of the conservative religious right. Some believe that Disney have repeatedly tried to have their cake and eat it, knowingly playing into those themes, but always avoiding any actual representation to avoid bigots getting angry. So, whether or not it's the 'original' or literal message behind the song is separate to whether or not it's a valid interpretation - especially when it's likely that these interpretations were played into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Something like Let It Go being open to interpretation is obviously deliberate, and hardly a new thing with songs or movies etc. That way they can appeal to a wide variety of people who will find something that resonates with them in the story or lyrics etc. Whether you're a strong independent woman struggling with your identity or sexuality or someone struggling with their gender or anything else really. It's not a case of "this is the meaning and everyone else can fuck off with their interpretations" and they'd be majorly stupid to ever say something to that effect. Don't get me wrong - there are absolutely definitely stretches of the imagination when it comes to fiction and various fanbases twisting things to fit their own narratives and wants, but sometimes the writers are guilty of knowing exactly what they're doing and giving just enough without committing to certain things. As said above, that's definitely something that Disney walk a fine line with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Devon Malcolm said: Absolutely none of Disney's alleged representation has been anything more than pure tokenism. There's a complete lack of sincerity behind everything progressive they purport to be pushing forward, which is why it's so disappointing that they get so much spotlight when a character in their content might possibly be, maybe, just a little bit gay. And then an actual progressive family film, The Mitchells vs the Machines has an openly gay teen girl in it who is treated with normality and deftness, yet is ignored beyond nerd film circles. The Eternals had an openly gay superhero. The first. It showed his husband and their son and also had the MCU's first gay kiss. And took a tanking in the US on social media (Rotten Tomatoes has it listed as the worst rated MCU film) and in other places it was cut completely. https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/eternals-banned-scene.html It was subtle, it was respectful. But also showed that because of the backlash it recieved it is unlikely to happen again in an MCU film. That said their reboot of The Proud Family has their first animated gender fluid character and their first animated same sex couple. And equally been condemed by that same sub set. They are catching up with a lot of their peers, but still laging behind in comparison to some companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022 3 hours ago, patiirc said: Appreciate your response, disagree with it given the amount of people who've said it allowed them to come out. That's nothing to do with the meaning of the song as it's written, that's people projecting onto it. If lots of men found listening to fat bottom girls by queen helps them come out it doesn't make the song any more about gay love because it's about Brian May's appreciation of women's big booty's. For let it go the songs "meaning" is tied unavoidably into the film's plot which has nothing to do with sexuality at all. I'm not saying that's the case with every film song but we're not talking about tears in heaven here it's a song written specifically for the film to forward plot and entertain the 4 to 12 year olds. If you hadn't said Westworld was a horror film I'd say this is the most wrong you've ever been about films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 49 minutes ago, Tommy! said: For let it go the songs "meaning" is tied unavoidably into the film's plot which has nothing to do with sexuality at all. I'm not saying that's the case with every film song but we're not talking about tears in heaven here it's a song written specifically for the film to forward plot and entertain the 4 to 12 year olds. The plot for the film was actually rewritten after the song was submitted. Elsa was meant to be the villain but because of how empowering the song was for her situation (being scared of her powers) story was changed to reflect that. So the married heterosexual couple who wrote it did so about female empowerment. As you say, if it’s helped people come out, then great, but it’s hardly a surprise a showtune has been embraced by the gay community.  I also think it’s important not to stray from the core message, that being Disney are a bunch of rancid wankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanky316 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Wasn't the plan for it to basically an adaptation of The Snow Queen but Disney couldn't figure out how to get it right so it had loads of rewrites and treatments anyway. Let it Go on paper is a fairly standard "this is me" song and can semi cross into a "no more Miss Nice Girl" villain song not entirely different from Defying Gravity, which of course is no coincidence. Doesn't surprise me that in earlier versions Elsa was the villain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Tommy! said: That's nothing to do with the meaning of the song as it's written, that's people projecting onto it. If lots of men found listening to fat bottom girls by queen helps them come out it doesn't make the song any more about gay love because it's about Brian May's appreciation of women's big booty's. For let it go the songs "meaning" is tied unavoidably into the film's plot which has nothing to do with sexuality at all. I'm not saying that's the case with every film song but we're not talking about tears in heaven here it's a song written specifically for the film to forward plot and entertain the 4 to 12 year olds. If you hadn't said Westworld was a horror film I'd say this is the most wrong you've ever been about films. Cheers for the misogyny 'mate' God forbid that other people see different things in different ways to your all encompassing viewpoint. 'Most Wrong' nah, just in your eyes. I'm sorry you feel the need to tell people that this must be a cishet thing for kids and no one else who struggles for representation, such as those who are lgbtq cant be apart of that. Sorry gang, Tommy's said you cant use that as a coming out thing, it's for straight people only. You arent like them, so you can't have that and must retreat to the nearest Ice Palace you've created yourself and shy away from your identity having already been disowned by those that were supposed to be caregivers and love you. You're all alone, so screw it may as well be gay hidden away, in a closet which is predominantly where the far right and other US twonks want to keep you and pretend you dont exist. And is mirrored by posts like yours.     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022 18 hours ago, patiirc said: Let it go is still afaik a coming out tune despite this I suspect what Pat meant here was 'as far as I know, it's still recognised as, and adopted by many as, a coming out tune' rather than 'as far as I know, it was absolutely intended to be this and no other interpretation is valid'. Just trying to avoid a long, unnecessary conversation where Pat will keep doubling dow... oh, I'm a couple of minutes too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022 Bring back downvotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022  22 minutes ago, patiirc said: Sorry gang, Tommy's said you cant use that as a coming out thing, it's for straight people only I didn't say that, so don't attribute it to me. The same goes for other parts of the post, but as ever being short and sweet isn't a strong point  I'm sorry you are either too stupid or to arrogant to understand the point and feel the need to make up sentiment and points I've not expressed and get all stroppy, but ultimately that's your problem not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022 34 minutes ago, patiirc said: 'Most Wrong' nah, just in your eyes. . Westworld definitely isn’t a horror film. As for the rest of that post, it’s not about coming out, it can be interpreted in that way if you want. But it wasn’t written about a characters sexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 2 hours ago, lanky316 said: Let it Go on paper is a fairly standard "this is me" song Not having that. Let It Go is an absolute banger and one of the best Disney songs of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted March 1, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2022 Death of the Author lads, innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Jim Bob Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Tommy! said: That's nothing to do with the meaning of the song as it's written, that's people projecting onto it. If lots of men found listening to fat bottom girls by queen helps them come out it doesn't make the song any more about gay love because it's about Brian May's appreciation of women's big booty's. For let it go the songs "meaning" is tied unavoidably into the film's plot which has nothing to do with sexuality at all. I'm not saying that's the case with every film song but we're not talking about tears in heaven here it's a song written specifically for the film to forward plot and entertain the 4 to 12 year olds. If you hadn't said Westworld was a horror film I'd say this is the most wrong you've ever been about films. Â You do know a song can become a gay anthem without being aimed at that community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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