Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted January 25, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said: Dinklage went in but don't get too carried away because he did just make a musical.  It seems like using the term 'dwarf' as your go-to PC term is just asking for trouble when you start to conflate the mythical non-human fantasy dwarf with people with dwarfism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 26, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Chest Rockwell said: It seems like using the term 'dwarf' as your go-to PC term is just asking for trouble when you start to conflate the mythical non-human fantasy dwarf with people with dwarfism. I've seen a lot of people on Twitter arguing that Disney aren't doing anything wrong because it's not about real dwarfs, it's about the fantasy character, which sort of the level of popular cultural criticism today - the idea that two things are separate, and therefore have no bearing on one another at all. Dinklage has made a point his entire career of not playing the "magical dwarf" trope. From the point of view of an actor with dwarfism, that conflation of the mythical and the real is far more apparent than it would be to most people - especially early in his career, it would have been practically ever casting call or audition invite he ever received. No one can reasonably argue that the two are unrelated in that case. Disney have responded by saying that they're going for a more sensitive approach, and have consulted with "people from the dwarfism community". Presumably they'll find a PC, inclusive way to reduce that community to bumbling comedy characters all named after their single character trait. I can already picture the Daily Mail thinkpieces calling them "Wokey, Snowflakey and Non-Binary" or something. Edited January 26, 2022 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted January 26, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 1 minute ago, BomberPat said: I've seen a lot of people on Twitter arguing that Disney aren't doing anything wrong because it's not about real dwarfs, it's about the fantasy character, which sort of the level of popular cultural criticism today - the idea that two things are separate, and therefore have no bearing on one another at all. Dinklage has made a point his entire career of not playing the "magical dwarf" trope. From the point of view of an actor with dwarfism, that conflation of the mythical and the real is far more apparent than it would be to most people - especially early in his career, it would have been practically ever casting call or audition invite he ever received. No one can reasonably argue that the two are unrelated in that case. Disney have responded by saying that they're going for a more sensitive approach, and have consulted with "people from the dwarfism community". Presumably they'll find a PC, inclusive way to reduce that community to bumbling comedy characters all named after their single character trait. Weirdly I watched Willow last night for the first time since it came out for a podcast. My main takeaway, other then it’s basically The Princess Bride but with the story of Star Wars, was how good Warwick Davis was a lead. He deserved more lead roles.  This is the 4th Snow White film in the last decade or so. 2 of them digitally altered actors to be sized as dwarfs as well, that’s problematic surely?  Is the story not supposed to be told anymore? I’m not really a fan either way so don’t care if it should be. But what if there are a land of dwarfs and that’s where it’s set? It worked for Willow pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted January 26, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) That all makes complete sense. But it definitely wouldn't hurt the cause to use a different word other than 'dwarf'. Edited January 26, 2022 by Chest Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 26, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 16 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: That all makes complete sense. But it definitely wouldn't hurt the cause to use a different word other than 'dwarf'. It's a complicated thing - I didn't think "dwarf" was the appropriate term, though this might be one of those things where what's deemed offensive in the UK is more acceptable in the US or vice-versa, or else specifically people with dwarfism are okay with the term but other little people (which apparently is the appropriate term, but has always felt somewhat demeaning to me) aren't. The existence of the fantastical dwarfs of myths and literature definitely plays into the portrayal of dwarfs as something other, almost a completely separate species to humans. I don't know if that's fixed by changing the terminology, though, and ultimately it's not our call to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted January 26, 2022 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 It never occurred to Disney they could just not make another adaptation of this story and leave it confined to history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 26, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 and that's the rub. Any debate centred around "well, how else are we supposed to tell this story?" is prefigured on the assumption that they need to be telling the story again in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Danger Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Mystical Dwarves that live in mountains and have big bushy beards and battle axes might not be the same kind of Dwarves that a doctor would talk about but the average insensitive kid on the playground and hilarious cunt on Twitter isn’t making that distinction. More importantly, the overwhelming majority of people commenting on this wouldn’t have the first idea how something like this affects your everyday life. Just make them something else, god forbid they make a meaningful change or come up with something fresh in one of their remakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 26, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 I think the broader point is that he's highlighted how much of Disney's "progressivism" is just really, really lazy window dressing. They were expecting praise for having cast a Hispanic actress as Snow White, because it's the sort of surface-level activism that (particularly American) audiences will applaud as brave and progressive while Disney laughs all the way to the bank, and have instead been called out on a separate issue that probably wasn't even on their radar. There's been no real engaging with the source material, just churning another remake out of the sausage factory. As an etymological note, apparently the spelling "dwarves" is only used for the fantastical characters, and was invented by Tolkien, whereas "dwarfs" is the more appropriate usage in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted January 26, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 Just turn them into clever boys, like in this PS2 knockoff game. https://youtu.be/xUaRTsbxihI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted January 26, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 26, 2022 11 minutes ago, BomberPat said: I think the broader point is that he's highlighted how much of Disney's "progressivism" is just really, really lazy window dressing. They were expecting praise for having cast a Hispanic actress as Snow White, because it's the sort of surface-level activism that (particularly American) audiences will applaud as brave and progressive while Disney laughs all the way to the bank, I disagree on this one. Having recently watched Moana and Encanto, and discussing the latter in some detail with my Colombian colleague, the representation in those films feels pretty substantial and well-considered. Maybe some of the casting might have been a bit token-y, but the actual research that's gone into the development of these stories is quite evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 26, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: I disagree on this one. Having recently watched Moana and Encanto, and discussing the latter in some detail with my Colombian colleague, the representation in those films feels pretty substantial and well-considered. Maybe some of the casting might have been a bit token-y, but the actual research that's gone into the development of these stories is quite evident. yeah, that's probably fair, actually. My criticism applies to the live action remakes rather than to their more original content. Edited January 26, 2022 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted January 26, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 26, 2022 I haven't watched any of those so I guess I can't comment on that too much. But I do remember some complaints about inaccuracies in Aladdin of just lumping in a mish mash of Arabic and South Asian stuff with little regard or consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 It’s going to be “Snowflake Caucasian And The Seven Vertically Challenged People” and I’ll be making this point on GBeebies.  In the tv show Once Upon A Time, they had men below average height as a group of miners, they had different personalities that reflected their nicknames and was a good modernisation of the characters.  But yeah, fuck Disney and just don’t remake it again. Wankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted January 26, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 40 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: I haven't watched any of those so I guess I can't comment on that too much. But I do remember some complaints about inaccuracies in Aladdin of just lumping in a mish mash of Arabic and South Asian stuff with little regard or consideration. Aladdin was directed by Guy Ritchie. Make your own call on that. One thing they have done in their live action remakes is remove a lot of the historical issues like the crows in Dumbo and the Siamese cat song in Lady and the Tramp were not in them. Of course, backward idiots weren't happy because they enjoyed them as they were. They are also the kinds of people who have no issue with Song Of The South and think it should be readily available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.