A thread in which for Arsenal and Spurs fans to have sexual tension and poor banter 20/21.

[Cod Eye]

Just now, Factotum said:

Liverpool were pretty terrible for large portions of the 90s and 2000s but their name and stature remained huge.

Did they? From what I remember it, they were considered a "best of the rest" type team until Benitez had that season they won all the knock out competitions. Same with Spurs. The name itself was always well known, but I can't imagine they were selling many shirts worldwide in the period they were battling relegation.

Where I live is a pretty good barometer of who the "big" clubs are. You go in the town center, and and pubs on a Saturday afternoon and you have a mix of Barnsley, Wednesday shirts and whoever is the fashionable clubs at that time. Up until about 10,15 years ago, it was almost exclusively Man Utd and Arsenal, then Arsenal slowly started being replaced with Chelsea and now Chelsea are being replaced with Liverpool. But I can't ever remember seeing a Liverpool shirt in that period when they had the likes of Phil Babb and Jamie Redknapp. 

[hallicks]

Never mind.

[stewdogg]

1 hour ago, Cod Eye said:

But Spurs and Arsenal? Now I've always had a soft spot for Spurs. I've said that on here before. I used to buy the shirts, and hero worshipped players like Gazza and Klinsmann. But they have won the league twice. Everton have 9, Villa have 7. Even Sunderland have 6(same as both City and Chelsea). So barring the stadium and the Champion's League final the other year, why are they considered a part of the biggest 12 clubs in Europe? 

None of these clubs are in it for their history, Spurs are a well known brand, Daniel Levy has got a dual stadium to have an NFL franchise in. COVID aside this is going to be almost nailed on with a European Super League. Levy is a very clever businessman, I love him for making us fairly sustainable, bring us Champions League football and having the possibility to expand into the hugely exciting and rich NFL market. I also hate him for sacking Poch, not spending money consistently and for treating us like a business (which ultimately it is, but I feel like I am going to be priced out of going soon).

Arsenal are a HUGE club, as Factotum said outside of Man U and Liverpool they are the next most successful team, they are also a recognised brand, they have a huge stadium and bring in massive revenues.

[SuperBacon]

1 hour ago, Cod Eye said:

But they have won the league twice.

Please, not so loud.

1 hour ago, Cod Eye said:

why are they considered a part of the biggest 12 clubs in Europe? 

According to Forbes, they're valued at number 10 in the world. I don't disagree with you by the way (I think 'big club' criteria is an awful argument mostly and Spurs aren't as successful as other clubs have been in the past) but I can genuinely see why they're included to be honest. 

This has NOTHING to do with how many titles you've won, but then we all know that.

[Cod Eye]

23 minutes ago, stewdogg said:

None of these clubs are in it for their history, Spurs are a well known brand, Daniel Levy has got a dual stadium to have an NFL franchise in. COVID aside this is going to be almost nailed on with a European Super League. Levy is a very clever businessman, I love him for making us fairly sustainable, bring us Champions League football and having the possibility to expand into the hugely exciting and rich NFL market. I also hate him for sacking Poch, not spending money consistently and for treating us like a business (which ultimately it is, but I feel like I am going to be priced out of going soon).

Arsenal are a HUGE club, as Factotum said outside of Man U and Liverpool they are the next most successful team, they are also a recognised brand, they have a huge stadium and bring in massive revenues.

 

3 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Please, not so loud.

According to Forbes, they're valued at number 10 in the world. I don't disagree with you by the way (I think 'big club' criteria is an awful argument mostly and Spurs aren't as successful as other clubs have been in the past) but I can genuinely see why they're included to be honest. 

This has NOTHING to do with how many titles you've won, but then we all know that.

I'd just wrote out another huge fucking rant, but at the end of the day I think we are all of the same opinion that it's a complete piss take.

I do get that Spurs are a famous name, though. I was at Wembley for the 2 FA Cup matches in '91, and the support was unreal, to be fair. i think that's part of why I'm so angry and hurt by it all. Matches like that feel legendary. The Gazza freekick, for instance. Would it have felt as special if it was just in a normal match? Or him going down in the final for being off his head. It sticks out in my head because if felt huge due to the fact it was in the FA Cup final. If it was in a dead rubber towards the end of the season then, what does it really mean?

[garynysmon]

The attitude that has annoyed me the most on social media is the "Club X are scum for doing this, mine would never join a Super League."

The sad truth is yes, yes they fucking would, and that's the worst thing about it all. Its not like greed is limited to some of the biggest clubs, its endemic in professional football. 

You think that if Aston Villa would have been invited they'd have refused? It could just have easily been Arsenal or Spurs crying blue murder today and what a disgrace it all is.

 

[SuperBacon]

Not being funny, but did anyone expect Daniel fucking Levy to see his 5 "biggest rivals" pop off to a Super League and him to turn around and go "No, not for me thanks"

Still, maybe all this money will bring that fabled Cheese Room to fruition.

[garynysmon]

2 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Not being funny, but did anyone expect Daniel fucking Levy to see his 5 "biggest rivals" pop off to a Super League and him to turn around and go "No, not for me thanks"

Still, maybe all this money will bring that fabled Cheese Room to fruition.

Don't get me wrong, this is soooo Daniel Levy that I'm surprised that anyone else is surprised.

But that's not to say that every Premier League Chairman isn't a twat and wouldn't do the same given half a chance.

[PunkStep]

3 hours ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

So you don't like the Champions League then, because that is pretty much the same teams every year contesting the latter stages. The German clubs aside the last time a Champions League final was won by a team outside the proposed Super League teams was 2003. 

There already is a Super League, The Champions League isn't any better just because Ventspils, Krasnodar, or Rangers are occasionally allowed to play in the group stages. Arsenal and Spurs should consider themselves lucky that they are still considered relevant enough to be invited. 

It's not great no, but at least it's not closed off. It's not entirely about who wins it- so many teams have given so much by having good runs in the competition. Look at Atalanta and Roma in recent years. It's not pretty much the same teams having a go either- last year you had Leipzig and Lyon reach the semi finals, the year before you had Ajax. The number of teams that have reached the QF stage over the past 20 years is vast (in future it cannot be more than the same 15 plus 5 invited teams that might get lucky). Couple that with teams emerging as forces, others falling into an abyss, and some re-establishing themselves- it isn't always the same teams at all.

Just over 10 years ago PSG and Atletico were finishing mid-table and weren't the powerhouses they have since become, City had never played in the CL and Leipzig had barely formed. Not long before then you had the brilliant Sevilla side spearheaded by Kanoute and Luis Fabiano, the Riquelme-inspired Villarreal underdogs that almost reached the final, Hiddink's impressive PSV side. Going back a bit further and Leverkusen and Valencia were genuine contenders. Think about the occasions as well like Celtic beating Barcelona and Galatasaray welcoming Man Utd to hell.

Is the CL ideal? No, of course not. The format has contributed to powerhouse teams in powerhouse leagues and created more disparity between national leagues. But this is a huge step in the wrong direction. It's far too exclusive.

[Cod Eye]

4 minutes ago, PunkStep said:

Just over 10 years ago PSG and Atletico were finishing mid-table and weren't the powerhouses they have since become, City had never played in the CL and Leipzig had barely formed. Not long before then you had the brilliant Sevilla side spearheaded by Kanoute and Luis Fabiano, the Riquelme-inspired Villarreal underdogs that almost reached the final, Hiddink's impressive PSV side. Going back a bit further and Leverkusen and Valencia were genuine contenders. Think about the occasions as well like Celtic beating Barcelona and Galatasaray welcoming Man Utd to hell.

 

This is the big problem for me. Man City, as an example, will be given the preferential treatment and be guaranteed a place in perpetuity. What if the owners sell up, and they can't attract or afford someone like Pep or the expensive transfers? Or, what if someone buys a club of similar size, let's say Leeds. A club that like pre-oil money City also has its core support of around 35,000 and has been down the leagues, but fought its way back. If someone buys Leeds and turns them into a proper world class team? Why shouldn't they get that guaranteed spot? 

I've been thinking, and I don't think I would be so opposed to it if they just made their own version of the Champion's League, to remove the UEFA governance. Stick with a similar(if nor tweaked)format, but let the clubs involved own the competition and vote on the rules, like they do with the Premier League. If you qualify, you get your share and vote for that season, if you don't your share and vote goes elsewhere.

I'd also be willing to accept it if they said the founding clubs would be guaranteed a place for the next, say 5 years as a perk for being one of the first clubs to take the plunge, and to mitigate any short term risk. Once that period is over though, it's every man for themselves. Again, it wouldn't be ideal, but a lot better than the shit on the table now...

[Keith Houchen]

Spurs and Arsenal are NXT UK guys getting the call up to RAW to be jobbers to the stars. 

[Cod Eye]

6 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Spurs and Arsenal are NXT UK guys getting the call up to RAW to be jobbers to the stars. 

Hahahah, So what does that make the likes of Barnsley and the other top 6 in the Championship that will be replacing them in the promised land?

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

Money will continue to talk. These clubs are all mercenaries. If one of them shows any weakness they will be out and they will look for someone with more money. 

[garynysmon]

20 minutes ago, Cod Eye said:

This is the big problem for me. Man City, as an example, will be given the preferential treatment and be guaranteed a place in perpetuity. What if the owners sell up, and they can't attract or afford someone like Pep or the expensive transfers? Or, what if someone buys a club of similar size, let's say Leeds. A club that like pre-oil money City also has its core support of around 35,000 and has been down the leagues, but fought its way back. If someone buys Leeds and turns them into a proper world class team? Why shouldn't they get that guaranteed spot? 

That's a big problem with football nowadays.

If football clubs were supposed to dominate in perpetuity then Blackburn, Preston and even the Royal Engineers would be fighting it out for the title.

But even when Fergie left and everyone was laughing at Man Utd being on their arses (relatively anyway), you knew it would be a matter of time until their pure financial strength shone through. They were making more through foreign shirt sales than some clubs made from Champions League income. 

The financial gap is such now that your Man Utd's will never be able to fall below a certain level unless something catastrophic happens.

[Jazzy G]

I was saying to Mrs Jazzy's uncle the other day that if every United Fan based in the UK never set foot in Old Trafford again they'd probably still sell out every week off selling tickets to tourists. That's how big the Manchester United name and brand is.