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Posted
21 hours ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Aren't every top guys matches formulaic to an extent? It's a "You are paying to see the hits" mentality. It happened with Hogan. It happened with Austin. Same with Cena. Even Bret had his routine.

I think you’re confusing “hitting the same offensive moves” with “match being the same.” Ric Flair did all the same moves and worked the same match - sell, work the leg, Figure 4, babyface comes back. Bret Hart did all the same moves but had completely different matches with different opponents.

Posted
8 hours ago, air_raid said:

I think you’re confusing “hitting the same offensive moves” with “match being the same.” Ric Flair did all the same moves and worked the same match - sell, work the leg, Figure 4, babyface comes back. Bret Hart did all the same moves but had completely different matches with different opponents.

Fair point.

Posted (edited)

When I was younger and didn't want to be a 'bloody casual, bro', I spent a long time researching the pre-WWF/WCW Ric Flair classics. The 60 minute battles, the epic tussles.

I can tell you, with my full chest, they were all boring and/or shit.

His best work was a flabby titted comedy pensioner trying to win the big one last time. 

Edited by d-d-d-dAz
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Posted
3 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

When I was younger and didn't want to be a 'bloody casual, bro', I spent a long time researching the pre-WWF/WCW Ric Flair classics. The 60 minute battles, the epic tussles.

I can tell you, with my full chest, they were all boring and/or shit.

His best work was a flabby titted comedy pensioner trying to win the big one last time. 

His best work was on the microphone, pulling the people into those arenas in droves, to pay to sit through the hour long matches. That's what made Ric the greatest at that time. It was a totally different business model. I don't think that when they were on the road back then, Ric or any of his opponents would have given even a moment's thought to the idea that people might watch those matches twenty, thirty, or forty years later and analyse the quality of the ring work, completely detached from the emotion of the time and place.

  • Paid Members
Posted (edited)

honestly I think that's another win in Bret's column, he seems to be one of the first wrestlers to really recognise that there would be an element of posterity to their work, that people might go back and watch their matches again in the future.

Stu Hart always said that Ric Flair was a "Routine Man", and Bret has generally kept on that track as well. He's one of, if not the, best routine man to ever do it, and it was a necessity of his position and schedule for most of his career, but his job was effectively to wrestle his match every night, leaving space for other people to do their bit around his schtick. It's one of the reasons Hogan and Flair never really matched up as opponents, they're both Routine Men with routines that don't really match up - they're both largely built around selling, with Flair bumping and begging off as the heel, and Hogan getting beaten down and then selling up and fighting back as the babyface, there's not really a space in the middle where those routines gel together.

Edited by BomberPat
Posted (edited)

I actually think Hogan and Flair had good chemistry as opponents.

Their 91 MSG match, Bash at the Beach 94 and Halloween Havoc in the cage are all good. 

As an aside, I think Ric Flair is one of the most underrated babyfaces ever.

Edited by AshC
  • Paid Members
Posted
15 hours ago, AshC said:

As an aside, I think Ric Flair is one of the most underrated babyfaces ever.

He's one of the most discussed and praised people in the history of anything for his body of work. There's not a chance he's underrated in any way shape or form.

BATB 94 is a pretty decent showcase for both of them. The WWF stuff is terrible. Although their later WCW stuff would make it look like prime Bret v Steve by comparison.

Posted

Flair is consistently referenced as the heel touring champion or antongonist though, while you rarely hear about him working Regal in 1994 in the Queensbury Cup as a babyface, which was ace.

Posted

Flair as a babyface is fantastic. Purely for the sheer passion of the promo he was able to cut, and especially if he had a giving opponent ex Funk or Vader. 

  • Paid Members
Posted

yeah, Flair's retirement stipulation against Vader is a pretty universally loved bit of babyface business, surely? And the Flair/Funk feud always gets high praise. He might be more renowned as a heel, but his face work isn't short of love either.

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