The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[SuperBacon]

PARKLIFE!

[Supremo]

I think the point to make with Jade Cargill and the Performance Center is that after originally debuting in WWE they made quite a public deal about sending her to Florida because she wasn’t ready. Hunter said, “I want to make sure that no matter what is thrown at Jade Cargill she’s ready, and at no fault of her own, I think that she was limited in that.”

And then she spent a few months in the Performance Center, “getting ready,” only to emerge just as limited, if not more. She started screwing up Springboards all over the shop and to this day every single match still features a Homer Simpson moment where she stops dead in her tracks, having forgotten the next spot. This was this week’s, when she Powerbombed the script out of herself.

 

Edited June 24, 2025 by Supremo

[JLM]

Good assist from the ref to get that shoulder down. Reminds me of this belter: 

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/6CBFl7OgsH

Just tell them out loud that the shoulder isn’t down! You can do that in-character as the referee surely? You’re enforcing the rules. Don’t help them do the pin in front of everyone you loons. 

Edited June 24, 2025 by JLM

[tiger_rick]

Fucking amateur hour. Well, two hours. What happened to the game we love, lads?

[The King Of Swing]

1 hour ago, Lorne Malvo said:

Yeah, that's fair enough. AEW could've done a lot better in developing her. They've got their own issues with developing green wrestlers, it's criminal how few matches Hook has had in 3 years or whatever. Although I do think while Cargill wasn't great in AEW, she's even worse now.

Puts on tinfoil hat. 

I sometimes wonder if AEW knew or at least suspected, for some time that Jade wasn't sticking around, so didn't really bother to help her past a certain level.

Hasn't there also been ramblings online for some time, that Hook is possibly up for an offer from WWE? 

I'm probably talking shit, though. 

[DavidB6937]

1 hour ago, Kfogg1991 said:

it's honestly unbelievable how dull and cold it's become.

Just to play devil's advocate.. has it?

Granted there have been weeks i haven't been too fussed about watching myself. And there's been a lack of a big hot quality story to keep me invested. But I've watched pretty much all the shows since MITB and while they might not be top tier, I'm not seeing an awful product.

The crowds are still pretty decent most of the time. Very rarely highjacking anything or messing around completely disinterested. A lot of the talents are still super over. There's been some solid enough matches.

I've genuinely seen far far worse from WWE before. I don't think we're anywhere near the doom and gloom some people are suggesting.

[d-d-d-dAz]

57 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Just to play devil's advocate.. has it?

Granted there have been weeks i haven't been too fussed about watching myself. And there's been a lack of a big hot quality story to keep me invested. But I've watched pretty much all the shows since MITB and while they might not be top tier, I'm not seeing an awful product.

The crowds are still pretty decent most of the time. Very rarely highjacking anything or messing around completely disinterested. A lot of the talents are still super over. There's been some solid enough matches.

I've genuinely seen far far worse from WWE before. I don't think we're anywhere near the doom and gloom some people are suggesting.

I think it's a combination of things, the booking is definitely very poor compared to 18 months ago. That said, that's not necessarily enough to make it terrible... it only really becomes terrible if you either aren't naturally pre-disposed to liking the WWE product (if you only dip in and out and only like it when it's properly exceptional, it's not a good time for you) or if you can't stand Seth Rollins.

I think I naturally like WWE, so I can rule that out but the booking is rubbish AND I hate Seth Rollins so it's pretty bad for me right now.

[RedTwoster]

1 hour ago, tiger_rick said:

Jade's signing came at the height of the tribal shite online and those of a WWE persuasion were falling over themselves to tell everyone how great the WWE machine would make her. Maybe Twoster is right and she just doesn't have it, but their environment these days with no house shows and the crap teachers at the PC isn't one I'd bet my cheeseboard on being a success. 

I probably wouldn’t go that far - Mark Henry took years to ‘get good’ and Big Bill was similar - when he was given his singles push on Smackdown he even managed to have a stinker of a match with Daniel Bryan of all people - he’d wrestled for longer than Cargill has at that point; but he’s much better now.

Similarly, Batista was very limited during his early years on the main roster, but really stepped up his game as time went on, Liv Morgan was rubbish up until her heel turn and there are other examples too. It may be that she never ‘gets it’ but she’s absolutely worth persisting with.

2 hours ago, Arch Stanton said:

The PC's track record is rubbish, I won't dispute that, but you can't attribute Jade's shortcomings to it.

 I’m not sure it is - it’s produced and fine-tuned a decent number of talented wrestlers, but WWE has often failed to use them to their full potential. Not always though. The biggest success story is probably Bianca Belair, but you also have the likes of Liv Morgan, Chad Gable, Tiffany Stratton, Bron Breakker, The Creed Brothers, The Street Profits, Jason Jordan, Braun Strowman, Solo Sikoa, Oba Femi and Carmello Hayes - they’ve also recruited well from the indie scene and abroad, and have presumably made some level of difference to the likes of Bayley and Mercedes Mone.

I really do believe that they’ve had the talent, but they’ve often squandered it.

[Supremo]

I enjoyed a lot of WWE in 2002, and the crowds remained hot, but you could still recognise we were coming to the end of the boom.

I think the harshest criticism comes from how we can see them making all the same mistakes every booker makes when things start going wrong. Nothing more depressing than competent bookers immediately pressing the big red “WORKED SHOOT,” button when they start panicking.

It’s far from the end of the World, and 2025 AEW has proven you can turn things around by tightening up and working on your flaws. I’m not convinced Triple H has that in him, but you only have to look at Cody’s performances since coming back to see he’s got a massive stick up his arse and something to prove. I genuinely think the best course of action for everyone is to get the belt back on Cody at Summerslam and then have Cena step out of the shower the next night on Raw as a babyface. Tighten everything up, plot some simple, slow-burn angles that Hunter has proven to be his bread and butter, and enjoy what you can until The Rock makes his annual visit to piss in your bottle in January.

What I only realised today was how close we were to greatness. Book Cena vs. Punk at Money in the Bank instead of Saudi and this could have been great fun. Remove the Blood Money undertones and I bet everyone would have flourished. Punk’s head wouldn’t have fallen off. Cena would have likely still been having the most fun and delivering his best performance since turning heel, just without the horrible dark cloud over everything. Imagine all of this, but without it their tragic need to get ahead of the criticisms by weaving them into the storyline. Three weeks. They missed the bullseye by the tiniest fraction. All so they could do a rubbish Logan Paul Tag Match. Logan’s crimes know no limit.

Edited June 24, 2025 by Supremo

[Hannibal Scorch]

Jade Cargill is not it. She was training at the nightmare factory, WWE turned her down. Debuted on AEW, had a Goldberg run. Decided she wanted to get some movie roles (namely Storm in X-Men) and felt WWE would get her that recognition.

Got a big announcement she signed, immediately went to NXT as HHH said she hadn’t been trained properly and she now had access to the greatest wrestling school in the world. Debuted months later showing no improvement and has continued to regress. I assume because she hasn’t screwed up her legs she isn’t training often at the PC, but I think this is a hobby to her and nothing more. She’s got other businesses she’s focused on and I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s not renewed when her deals up. Total let down.

The irony of course if had she stayed in AEW is she would have probably had a better chance of getting movie roles then she has in WWE. Though saying that she looks more unnatural doing promos then she is in ring.

[Chili]

I've not seen much of Jade Cargill in WWE, but if she's pretty the same as she was in AEW then she's a funny one to me. I like her a lot but she's a weird case of a star that has IT. But is somehow also lacking IT.

[gmoney]

8 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

 

She now had access to the greatest wrestling school in the world. 

What's this? 

[Arch Stanton]

11 minutes ago, gmoney said:

What's this? 

Bitterness 

[LaGoosh]

25 minutes ago, Chili said:

I've not seen much of Jade Cargill in WWE, but if she's pretty the same as she was in AEW then she's a funny one to me. I like her a lot but she's a weird case of a star that has IT. But is somehow also lacking IT.

Yeah, if you go through a checklist of what a massive star should have she's got it all. But there's just something hollow to her. Like she was designed by a machine. There's no real passion or energy or charisma underneath it all.

AEW booked her pretty perfectly considering her limitations and got as much as they could out of her. If she's not improving WWE should basically book her the same as they did.

[Hannibal Scorch]

37 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

Bitterness 

Not on my end. I thought when he slagged off her previous training at  AEW during the Survivor Series press conference (trainers of Jade included Bryan Danielson), that’s what he said. He didn’t say that, but in a prior press conference he said of Jade “what doesn’t exist elsewhere exists here. The opportunity to learn at a different level”. (57 minutes in).

@Chilii actually think she’s regressed. It’s possible the people she worked with in AEW were maybe more at her level. Her best matches there were always with the more tenured veterans or people who were also in their first few years of wrestling. Everyone in WWE seems above her, but she also seems to forget more of when to do her spots than in AEW. She’s made more mistakes there than she did in AEW, where she also made mistakes but seemingly not as often (or rose tinted specs, I haven’t really gone back to watch her run).

Edited June 25, 2025 by Hannibal Scorch
Prap