The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[Mr_Danger]

I’ve just had a cracking idea for a new gimmick…..

[Guest]

1 hour ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Japanese video games as a frame of reference?

Double heel.

He's been out of AEW for years, won the main event at Mania, still can't stop copying Kenny Omega. Rent free

 

Quote

And Cody Rhodes should be on that side, too. On look alone they're the biggest baddies in the world. They both look like they'd team up to kill Peter Parker.

I have an image that I can't get out of my mind of Cody Rhodes, sitting on a throne, wearing the ula fala, with Roman Reigns dead at his feet and Tonglatelle and Jacob Fatu kneeling before him, staring with those dead eyes out into the crowd.

Edited January 14, 2025 by Duke

[mim731]

1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

while you can definitely see that with his run at NXT Black and Gold, why didn’t he go for Penta and Fenix before now? I don’t think you can say them being highlighted as much in AEW wasn’t a contributing factor.

I'm sure AEW was absolutely 100% a factor, probably the biggest one given the exposure it offered. Although would Penta have been under a contract with AAA when he started in AEW? I might be misremembering (it's very possible as contract rigmarole tends to make my glaze over), but I thought they signed with AEW after the launch and originally appeared via the working relationship with AAA before going full time with AEW. If so, Triple H may not have realy had a window to sign them since 2019, if he was a fan I suppose? I suspect someone with better lucha knowledge might have a better idea than myself though. 

[BomberPat]

Just now, mim731 said:

I'm sure AEW was absolutely 100% a factor, probably the biggest one given the exposure it offered. Although would Penta have been under a contract with AAA when he started in AEW? I might be misremembering (it's very possible as contract rigmarole tends to make my glaze over), but I thought they signed with AEW after the launch and originally appeared via the working relationship with AAA before going full time with AEW. If so, Triple H may not have realy had a window to sign them since 2019, if he was a fan I suppose? I suspect someone with better lucha knowledge might have a better idea than myself though. 

The short answer is...sort of.

AAA contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on, if they exist at all. But what AAA has over a lot of talent is ownership of their characters - names, mask and gear designs, and so on. It's why so many luchadores have to change their name and tweak their look when they fall out with them - the original La Parka becoming L.A. Park, Taurus becoming The Beast Mortos - and one of the reasons why there are so many luchadores who all seem to use the same name as an older luchadore; AAA will just debut a new version of the characters they own when the original leaves. They're not the only company to do that, but were prolific at coming up with new characters for so long that they might be the most prominent.

So while I think Penta and Fenix were signed to AEW from the beginning, what the AAA partnership gave them was the ability to use the names Pentagon Jr. and Fenix, which they own (though I think Fenix was always Rey Fenix in AEW, and AAA don't own that version of the name). It wouldn't surprise me if those names, or the name Pentagon Jr in particular, were the only reason AEW wanted to work with AAA in the first place. At some point that changed - if Cagematch is anything to go by, it's in late August 2020 that Penta started using the Penta El Zero M name in AEW. That might suggest that a deal with AAA came to an end there, or it might have been something else entirely - the Lucha Brothers opened their own business, Republic Of Lucha, in late 2020, so it may have been them getting all their trademarks in order, rather than a AAA thing. 

[Carbomb]

A slight side thing, but I always wondered what the deal was with the shape names. I know Octagon and the variations thereafter are faces, and the Pentagons were a heel response to that - I just wondered why those particular shapes? I'm guessing there's never been a Hexagon, Nonagon, or Decagon. And Square and Triangle are just too basic and general to be notable, not to mention they don't end with "-gon".

[abucalves]

There was briefly a Hexagon Dark, I say briefly in that he debuted in the closing minutes of the final episode of Lucha Underground as Vampiro's master, attacking Pentagon which then led to Jake Strong (Jack Swagger/Jake Hager) becoming the final Lucha Underground champion

Edited January 14, 2025 by abucalves

[BomberPat]

6 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

A slight side thing, but I always wondered what the deal was with the shape names. I know Octagon and the variations thereafter are faces, and the Pentagons were a heel response to that - I just wondered why those particular shapes? I'm guessing there's never been a Hexagon, Nonagon, or Decagon. And Square and Triangle are just too basic and general to be notable, not to mention they don't end with "-gon".

Octagon was a ninja gimmick, named after the Chuck Norris movie "The Octagon". Pentagon was then brought in as an evil version of that gimmick, similar to Black Tiger to Tiger Mask, to give him a rival. 

There were a few different Pentagons before the current Penta, for various reasons. Pentagon Jr. was actually created as a bit of a throwaway gimmick for a new Octagon Jr., but that Octagon Jr. signed with WWE before they went anywhere with it, and became Kalisto, leaving Pentagon Jr to become his own thing.

[mim731]

14 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

The short answer is...sort of.

AAA contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on, if they exist at all. But what AAA has over a lot of talent is ownership of their characters - names, mask and gear designs, and so on. It's why so many luchadores have to change their name and tweak their look when they fall out with them - the original La Parka becoming L.A. Park, Taurus becoming The Beast Mortos - and one of the reasons why there are so many luchadores who all seem to use the same name as an older luchadore; AAA will just debut a new version of the characters they own when the original leaves. They're not the only company to do that, but were prolific at coming up with new characters for so long that they might be the most prominent.

So while I think Penta and Fenix were signed to AEW from the beginning, what the AAA partnership gave them was the ability to use the names Pentagon Jr. and Fenix, which they own (though I think Fenix was always Rey Fenix in AEW, and AAA don't own that version of the name). It wouldn't surprise me if those names, or the name Pentagon Jr in particular, were the only reason AEW wanted to work with AAA in the first place. At some point that changed - if Cagematch is anything to go by, it's in late August 2020 that Penta started using the Penta El Zero M name in AEW. That might suggest that a deal with AAA came to an end there, or it might have been something else entirely - the Lucha Brothers opened their own business, Republic Of Lucha, in late 2020, so it may have been them getting all their trademarks in order, rather than a AAA thing. 

Thanks @BomberPat I knew someone would have a better idea of how that all shook out. 

[LaGoosh]

2 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

while you can definitely see that with his run at NXT Black and Gold, why didn’t he go for Penta and Fenix before now? I don’t think you can say them being highlighted as much in AEW wasn’t a contributing factor.

I'm pretty sure WWE was interested in them for NXT before AEW started, I recall reading that at the time. Whether it was genuine interest or just "sign every talent possible to stop them from working for this new upstart promotion" interest who knows.

[AndyUK]

Good RAW that. Nice to see them go 2 and a half hours rather than stretch everything to 3 hours too, it was the right amount of time.  

The Rumble looks nicely stacked. They do a better job keeping the Rumble match a little bit more unpredictable for the most part these days, which is one of the benefits of the brand being the draw rather than one particular star.

[FUM]

Some general thoughts on the show as I watched live to see Penta.

I like how this years Royal Rumble is stacking up. Big stars galore. I actually don’t know what the main card matches will be with how many are announcing for the Rumble. Cody/KO (is this possibly already announced actually?) and Gunther/Jey will maybe feud a bit longer is all I can think.

Penta debut was great, and the match kept me intrigued throughout. Really thought Chad had broken his neck on that destroyer - incredible sell.

I liked the commercials being used to give some promo time to undercard workers. I imagine if they keep that up someone will eventually shine and it’ll be something to look forward to every week.

Ludwig Kaiser is someone who I reckon can eventually breakout. Maybe not to the top but he is so believable as a little prick with his snarling face.

Lyra Valkyria - I don’t get it. Sure, decent wrestler but no interest at all and I’m not sure the crowd does either - why does she stand like she needs a shit?

Overall a decent show, it was probably about 30 mins too long for my liking though - I went to my kip as Priest walked out because it was starting to drag.

[RedTwoster]

16 minutes ago, FUM said:

Lyra Valkyria - I don’t get it. Sure, decent wrestler but no interest at all and I’m not sure the crowd does either

That’s how I feel about her, but I’ve thought that about so many wrestlers before they found their character/identity. She definitely needs to establish who she is. 

As for the ‘big league’ stuff, the comment didn’t even register to me. AEW did it often enough when they were on the rise, right down to Jericho calling himself ‘the Demo god’.  If AEW gets the opportunity to gloat again in the future, I’m sure they’ll take it. As long as they’re putting on a good show, it doesn’t bother me so much.

[The Dart]

I really hope we get a Penta vs. John Cena match at some point this year.

[BomberPat]

I think "big leagues" sticks in people's craw because it's what commentators acting as Vince McMahon's mouthpiece used to bellow at anyone who had the audacity to have earned a name for themselves elsewhere - "welcome to the big leagues, kid!", usually after they got beat by a WWE Superstar™. Even Sting got it from JBL.

 

As for Lyria Valkryia, I only ever saw her as part of a tag team on the indies pre-WWE and she was one of the naturally funniest wrestlers around. Then she went to NXT:UK, which as a brand seemed utterly allergic to comedy, and they repackaged her as their sixteenth spooky goth girl. I have no idea if that's what she wanted to do, how much say she had in it, or anything, but it felt like a complete waste of her talents. Obviously it's worked out alright for her, but I'm not surprised to hear it still doesn't feel like the character works for her.

[Mr_Danger]

27 minutes ago, The Dart said:

I really hope we get a Penta vs. John Cena match at some point this year.

I’m low key hoping that JBL’s appearance next week leads to a Cena match at some point. Not as a marquee match on a major ppv or anything but it’d be pretty fun to see them go one last time.