The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[Chili]

WWE is the market leader, but their worst trait of being the market leader is when they obviously wish alternatives didn't exist and there are just subservient feeder groups. They get pathetically bitchy about when they don't have too, on account of the arrogance of being the brand. WWE will always be the big dog because wrestling is also so pathetic to everyone else that 'THE WWF' will always be what the wrestling is. But the slightest attempt at grasping more than crumbs and you see them show their arse. Vince having a fucking cry about blood, the suspiciously timed PR bits, complaining about wrestlers pay going up so they HAVE to actually be more competitive and pay wrestlers they're worth, Triple H having the time to say Will Ospreay obviously doesn't work hard enough but doesn't have the time in his role to read up a sexual harassment issue, the pillaging of the UK promotion market years ago with NXT UK. Thr fucking nerve of them to pull off this whilst shagging the kingdom of Saudi Arabia in a blood money sportswashing propaganda deal.

They're the big time, doesn't devalue or belittle the other places, but AEW achieving so much (with all it's own stupid shit) and becoming themselves profitable and comfortably taking a nice place in 2nd/alternative product spot, and being the closest thing to anything since WCW were on their crest, where they'll always be (not the worst thing to be) infuriates the WWE machine. Because how fucking dare they force them to make their product better than when they coast on their 'only game in town' domination years. It was a creeping contribution into why I eventually just stopped. The product was getting meh, and whilst they might have struck a vein of gold in the last few years, a good chunk of that comes from actually having to pull their finger out their arse, and they find that infuriating.

Anyway... I liked Penta's debut. It's Konnan, don't answer the door, pretend your not in.

Edited January 14, 2025 by Chili

[FLips]

AEW crowds are sparce and their ratings (I know I know) are dwindling year on year. The last several times they've went up against NXT, who for all intents and purposes WWE consider their own minor leagues, they've been beaten. I don't think at this point it's unfair to say AEW isn't the big leagues, least not compared to WWE. Maybe at one point, but certainly not now.

Plus I don't think there's anything wrong with WWE calling themselves the big leagues anyway, because that's a more American vernacular. When they say it in baseball it's not dismissing everything they did in the minors, or in the NFL dismissing their colleage football records, it's just a factual congratulatory statement.

I thought Raw was much better this week in terms of feeling like an actual show. I did skip the bits I wasn't interested in like the Dakota Kai match and the Ludwig Kaiser match, but the rest flowed nicely. I was worred for Penta at first because while he was having a good match with Gable, Gable was looking better than him in every way. If you didn't know, you'd think it could have been a match to push Gable. Penta is OK though. Great presentation but a little sloppy at parts and he always looks like he's waiting for moves in sequences rather than selling the ones he's taken, but he got better as it went on, I liked the selling of his leg and it ended up being a good debut for him.

Nia Jax is rubbish and Bayley isn't far off is she? What happened there? Calling Nia Jax a stupid idiot and then getting absolutely blasted to the ground made her look like a punk. I'm still not 100% on the rosters but aren't Nia Jax and Bayley both Smackdown stars? Where was Naomi, Asuka, Belair?

Speaking of rubbish, I don't know people could sit and go to town on Samantha Irvin but not give the current ring announcer the same stick. She's Samantha Irvin from Wish. Same growling-aaahhh that HHH does, same cadence, but just not as good.

Street Fight was fine but I'll be glad to see the back of both of these and have them do something else. Finn Balor I think is lucky to have a job as he adds nothing, and while Damien Priest seems to have the tools he just hasn't clicked for me yet. What's he on about shouting about brothers keepers during the finish though? Dweeb.

I enjoyed Karrion Kross shithousing Miz into matches with people and leaving him to clean up the mess. Very funny gimmick and a good use of The Miz who somehow has the same music, entrance and gimmick after 20 years. Bo Dallas' Treehouse of Horrors going to Smackdown should freshen things up a bit too.

Gunther is an afterthought which is a shame, but understandable. Him vs Jey Uso should be decent but surely the endgame is him vs Sami at Mania? Isn't Sami one of the only ones to have pinned him? That belt will never mean as much as the WWE title so having it there for the likes of Sami Zayn, Jey Uso and Gunther makes sense. Keep the midcard lads like them, Damien Priest and Chad Gable busy with that while the actual stars go for the big one.

Enjoying the Punk/Seth/Drew stuff as well. Drew makes a lot of sense but I don't see him winning the rumble. I imagine it's coming down to Punk, Seth, Reigns, and Cena.

[SuperBacon]

Every thread descends into the same old shit doesn't it?

That Penta debut was excellent, and looking forward to seeing much more.

[Chili]

1 minute ago, SuperBacon said:

Every thread descends into the same old shit doesn't it?

That Penta debut was excellent, and looking forward to seeing much more.

No it doesn't, but if their gonna be wankers, we should comment on it. It's not tribal either.

[SuperBacon]

1 minute ago, Chili said:

No it doesn't, but if their gonna be wankers, we should comment on it. It's not tribal either.

"They started it" ?

Each to their own.

[Chili]

Just now, SuperBacon said:

"They started it" ?

Each to their own.

What does that mean? My point is I don't like when the big dog has no worry about ever being replaced, but they act the petty twat. It's just annoyingly irritating.

[FLips]

Just now, Chili said:

What does that mean? My point is I don't like when the big dog has no worry about ever being replaced, but they act the petty twat. It's just annoyingly irritating.

I dunno, it worked for Roman Reigns.

[Chris B]

The biggest issue with 'Welcome to the big leagues' is that it diminishes the guy, rather than builds him up. The line in the twitter clip of the 'Worst kept secret' was great, because you want to present him as already a big deal that is now here, rather than a rookie who hasn't achieved anything yet.

I've loved Penta since I saw him in Lucha Underground, and it's a shame he wasn't generally presented like this in AEW - at some point, I'd love to fully understand what went on in AEW, and how much was them being difficult to deal with, and how much was TK not seeing Penta as a main eventer. But either way, it clearly is a huge thing for him to be in WWE, and it seems that he's seen everything else as a step on the way to getting here. 

In the same way as with Cody, while I may not be watching, if they're achieving what they wanted to achieve and they're happy, then fuck it. It's good to see people you like achieving what they want to achieve (even if you wish he wanted to achieve other stuff). If it turns out we've been missing out on prime-Penta for some reason over the last few years, then it's pretty much a win for everyone. 

[DavidB6937]

Is this not the same as 'where the best wrestle' or 'where the big boys play' or whatever else? I don't think any company would market themselves as anything less than the best. If they start using "the big leagues!" as some in your face marketing deal then fair it's a little OTT.

I'm surprised it's ended up in a two page debate about how cunty it is. Of all the shitty things they've done over the years it seemed a very small throwaway nothing comment. I doubt many people are thinking about that out of all the things they'd remember from his debut.

 

 

[JLM]

28 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Every thread descends into the same old shit doesn't it?

That Penta debut was excellent, and looking forward to seeing much more.

“SuperBacon complaining about how wrestling is being discussed instead of contributing”  has, yet again, entered the chat. 

Is @d-d-d-dAzconsidered a tribalist ultra now, or did he post a minor criticism of the pro wrestling show on the pro wrestling discussion forum?

[air_raid]

13 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Is this not the same as 'where the best wrestle' or 'where the big boys play' or whatever else? 

I think the difference is that when WCW started saying "where the big boys play" they were punching up rather than what WWE likes to do, which is punch down.

[LaGoosh]

8 minutes ago, JLM said:

“SuperBacon complaining about how wrestling is being discussed instead of contributing”  has, yet again, entered the chat. 

Every thread descends into the same old shit!

I didn't watch Raw but I watched the Penta bit. His music sucks but he looks amazing (as he always has done). He just has a natural innate presence and charisma that you can't teach and will always ensure he has a job. The match itself made me laugh - I'm sure if it was your first time seeing him it was awesome. You'll probably find it less awesome when you realise that every single match he ever has is exactly like that. I always found it weird how he took that awesome arm breaker spot he did in Lucha Underground, which was treated as a huge deal, but now does it as a transitional move (and it never breaks anyone's arm).

He's going to be able to buy a mansion with the cash he gets from selling all those masks. Cool as fuck.

It was also absolutely amazing to see him without that twat Alex Abrahantes running around like a goon.

Edited January 14, 2025 by LaGoosh

[SuperBacon]

10 minutes ago, JLM said:

SuperBacon complaining about how wrestling is being discussed instead of contributing”  has, yet again, entered the chat. 

To be honest I come in the Raw thread to read intelligent discussion on the show, not tribal bollocks which is what it always descends in to. Its boring.

[Hannibal Scorch]

I think this Michael Cole Big Leagues comment was taken far too literally when you all missed a key detail. He mentioned his career in AAA, TNA and Lucha Underground during that match and then said Welcome to the big leagues as he won. He forgot about AEW and that’s clearly why he said it! 
 

Personally I thought it wasn’t a great debut. The entrance was great, generic music aside, but he looked a star. Gable is a great wrestler and so I thought we’d get a debut similar to when Rey debuted on Smackdown against Chavo. But I thought the first half of the match was slow, as in the speed they were actually working before he botched the springboard leg drop. Then when Penta hit his dive to the outside Gable decided to Miz him. Ouch.

Kicking out of a Canadian destroyer, what is this, an Indy? But yeah I thought the match went long and was to even for a dominating debut which surprised me. I hope it was just nerves. 
 

only watched the first 90 minutes but thought it felt much more like a regular Raw so that was an improvement, felt much better paced.

[Supremo]

Penta looked incredible. I knew it was the perfect match. I knew it was going to work. But even I couldn’t have predicted it would work that well. Amazing look. Amazing presentation. Good match, with Chad bumping like a fucking champion. Amazing promo. Even the music - by their current standards - wasn’t half bad. Absolute home run. Every single kid who watched that has a new favourite wrestler.