The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[JLM]

I don’t think the veracity of “welcome to the big leagues” is the issue though. It’s just so petty, smug and self-congratulatory to say it. It also belittles everything else he’s done and comes across as so patronising, particularly in this instance where his existing fan base was there for all to see. Also pretending all other wrestling doesn’t count while in the same breath talking about signing these hot free agents/worst kept secrets etc. Their highest paid gate records are also genuine and factually correct, I still don’t want to hear it though. 

Edited January 14, 2025 by JLM

[The Gaffer]

That Penta promo was an innocent delight. I think my favourite kind of wrestling might be that logical, straightforward New Gen style stuff but when it really works. Colourful, fun work that gets all the demographics on side. It's why I've enjoyed Cody Rhode's ascent so much as well. No 4D "We're taking real shots but that's cool because it's our characters now and you're meant to hate it!" bollocks, no weird Rock self-aggrandising fuck offness, just pure "I'm happy to be here, let's kick some ass, bet your kid wants my poster now" stuff. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

7 minutes ago, JLM said:

I don’t think the veracity of “welcome to the big leagues” is the issue though. It’s just so petty, smug and self-congratulatory to say it. It also belittles everything else he’s done and comes across as so patronising, particularly in this instance where his existing fan base was there for all to see. Also pretending all other wrestling doesn’t count while in the same breath talking about signing these hot free agents/worst kept secrets etc. Their highest paid gate records are also genuine and factually correct, I still don’t want to hear it though. 

That's a really good point.

His whole debut was predicated on the fact that actually he'd had some exposure via a 'big league'. He didn't go in via NXT, he got the multi-week build, they released merch ahead of time to get the sales; all things that don't happen if he's coming up from BackyardWrestlingChampionship or whatever.

To then turn around and go "welcome to the big leagues" is absurd and lacks self awareness.

But, as much as I'm a fan, the WWE being snide, petty and lacking self awareness isn't exactly a surprise.

They did the same thing to Sting FFS.

[TheScarlettChad]

20 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

That's a really good point.

His whole debut was predicated on the fact that actually he'd had some exposure via a 'big league'. He didn't go in via NXT, he got the multi-week build, they released merch ahead of time to get the sales; all things that don't happen if he's coming up from BackyardWrestlingChampionship or whatever.

To then turn around and go "welcome to the big leagues" is absurd and lacks self awareness.

But, as much as I'm a fan, the WWE being snide, petty and lacking self awareness isn't exactly a surprise.

They did the same thing to Sting FFS.

At least he won his debut. Sting didn't. 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

They are always going to be horrible pricks, that is never changing, and to be fair wrestling is pretty much built on snide. To Dazzlers point about been a big league because you can draw 70 thousand at Wembley and have a TV deal: League One has a TV deal and the play off final last year drew over 70 thousand but no one thinks of it as a big league. Wrestling is very much like football, there is one big league and then there is everything else and I'd imagine if you asked your average person in the street which wrestling company did a show with a 70k attendance at Wembley then the vast majority of people would say WWE. 

 Anyway Penta's last match before this was for Tercer Festival De Lucha Libre JRZ which I think we can agree is not big league. 

 

[Supremo]

I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves. This is the most recent Tweet from Penta. Seems silly to talk about any chances of him going to WWE just yet.

[JLM]

Never heard of it. 

[TheScarlettChad]

Wrestling is a horrible business. I don't watch WWE for their morals. I watch because it's fun. And I get rewarded as a wrestling fan. They'll always be cunts. 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

2 minutes ago, JLM said:

Never heard of it. 

I'd describe you as many things, but average man would never be one of them. 

[BomberPat]

16 hours ago, FLips said:

Like PAC having it in his contract he can bugger off to Newcastle whenever he fancies it, signing Penta and not being able to monetise his masks is just one of many bush league issues if that was the case.

I don't think allowing PAC a degree of work-life balance is an issue. Ospreay has the same thing; he's allowed to travel back to the UK between shows, and seems to spend most of his time here. That was what was the kind of perk required to get him to sign a contract, and I think it's the sort of thing AEW should do more of, not less - with WWE having somehow babyfaced themselves in the last 18 months, AEW need to present themselves as more amenable to wrestlers than they are, to make them a more attractive place to work. 

The Penta situation is different; the copyright/licensing around his name and mask is a mess. AAA own the name Pentagon Jr. in Mexico, but the holding company for Lucha Underground own it in the US, and they also own Pentagon Dark. The Lucha Brothers' company seem to own the name Penta Zero/Cero Miedo, but also that trademark may have expired.

And beyond the name, the issues with the mask design are the same - different people claiming ownership of the different bits of it. And remember that when AEW started, there was a working agreement with AAA, so they probably couldn't license their version of the masks, any more than the versions the Lucha Bros sell at their own business.

What WWE have done - as they did with Rey Mysterio too - is design their own version of the mask that's legally distinct enough to sell it themselves. Now maybe AEW could or should have done that, but there's a ton of reasons why they didn't, and they don't all come down to "they're not professional enough". 

2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

It was easy to think they might fuck him up because they can be pretty lazy with their lucha guys booking. But after that I think Penta just has a different aura to most of them. Theres definitely something special about him and I can see people being way more into him than a lot of the others they've signed over the years.

I think the thing with Penta is that, yeah, he's a Lucha guy, but that's not the whole deal. He looks like a Mortal Kombat character. There's an appeal there that means a lot of people who don't "get" Lucha would still be drawn to him. When Lucha Underground was around, I used to say that if I were a kid in a toy shop, and you had a Pentagon Jr. action figure next to a Roman Reigns or a Seth Rollins, there's no way I'd be going home with anyone but Penta.


Laughed out loud at seeing that Michael Cole said "welcome to the big leagues". Some things never change. Bad man gone.

[tiger_rick]

Just now, TheScarlettChad said:

Wrestling is a horrible business. I don't watch WWE for their morals. I watch because it's fun. And I get rewarded as a wrestling fan. They'll always be cunts. 

Have they turned this sinking ship around since last week then?

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

1 minute ago, tiger_rick said:

Have they turned this sinking ship around since last week then?

I'm no expert, as we can clearly tell by my posts, but if you turn a sinking ship around it still sinks no? Just facing a different direction. 

[TheScarlettChad]

2 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Have they turned this sinking ship around since last week then?

Knew this was coming lol. Yes it seems a good episode this week. 

[tiger_rick]

Just now, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

I'm no expert, as we can clearly tell by my posts, but if you turn a sinking ship around it still sinks no? Just facing a different direction. 

Maybe there's a beach behind it?

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

2 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Maybe there's a beach behind it?

Maybe it has Sting, Davey Boy, Vader and Sid on it?