Wrestling #MeToo #SpeakingOut

[theringmaster]

On 6/16/2021 at 9:47 AM, kamicazze said:

if ever something needed a documentary on it to raise awareness this is it. Not for us, as us being on here makes us aware. For the people who take their children to these wrestling schools, the familys who watch these wrestlers at holiday camps & just to shine a light on the issues that have happened. 
 

This is a massive can of worms because the narrative of events will be greatly debated.

 

For example, this past weekend i saw several people claim it began when Bravis Tanks was outed, saw somebody claim Progress 'listened to the fans and took immediate action' etc, if a Doc aired we would be in this sub pointing out all the inaccuracies.

Also, much like Dark side, you will get the talking heads who have no right or authority to appear but will because they want the spotlight (something that has already happened in SO).

BBC/ITV don't get Wrestling, how are they going to be able to do this justice?

 

A well researched (and non bias) book would be a better route.

 

On the subject of picketing, Rival promotions will see this as a chance to stir trouble, the fact that somebody clearly used the APPG to take a dig at Kamikaze kinda backs this up.

Edited June 21, 2021 by theringmaster

[TimmyB]

3 hours ago, theringmaster said:

This is a massive can of worms because the narrative of events will be greatly debated.

 

For example, this past weekend i saw several people claim it began when Bravis Tanks was outed, saw somebody claim Progress 'listened to the fans and took immediate action' etc, if a Doc aired we would be in this sub pointing out all the inaccuracies.

Also, much like Dark side, you will get the talking heads who have no right or authority to appear but will because they want the spotlight (something that has already happened in SO).

BBC/ITV don't get Wrestling, how are they going to be able to do this justice?

 

A well researched (and non bias) book would be a better route.

 

On the subject of picketing, Rival promotions will see this as a chance to stir trouble, the fact that somebody clearly used the APPG to take a dig at Kamikaze kinda backs this up.

Probably the best post I have seen on the subject.

[BomberPat]

On 6/19/2021 at 3:45 PM, Jesse said:

I don't believe that's true, both in the sense that the majority of people attending wrestling shows aren't first-timers who don't know anything at all (not directly in wrestling but having worked in events & marketing for a decade I'd expect 60 to 80% of ticket buyers are previous purchasers depending on how fast your event is growing) and also most people can absolutely differentiate between brands.

This really varies depending on your audience. For something like PROGRESS, RevPro or Fight Club Pro, that largely cultivates an online fanbase and brand loyalty? Absolutely, the name matters. To your holiday camp shows, family shows, ALL-AMERICAN STYLE LIVE WRESTLING, and other local outfits with barely a Facebook page to their name? Not at all. Those companies, by and large, are The Wrestling. Dad buying tickets for the kids because of a poster he saw in the chippy isn't taking notice of the promotion name, just LIVE WRESTLING. When I still had a hand in that sort of thing, my biggest bit of advice to the guy doing our poster artwork was always "make sure WRESTLING is the biggest word on there" because it's going to do more to attract a casual passer-by than whatever alphabet soup your company's initials are, or whatever witty name you came up with for the event.

The companies with a big online presence are, by and large, not going to take too many risks on booking the people prominently named in Speaking Out. There will be some who slip through the cracks, and people prepared to berate promoters for booking them, when in reality I'm sure a lot of individual cases will have slipped people's attentions - a lot of Very Online wrestling fans tend to assume that promoters and wrestlers spend as much of their time knee-deep in Twitter gossip as they do, and in my experience that's rarely the case, and it's easy to have a scandal or two pass you by.

The companies that largely escape fan pressure will be those with a predominantly offline business model. Wrestlers themselves need to feel empowered enough to say "I'm not working the show if he is", and promoters need to be prepared to listen. That still won't fix everything, because promoters will still book their dodgy mates as "surprise opponents" to get around people trying to boycott shows with them advertised (part of the reason why I think there should be a bit of a moratorium on "surprises" on shows for a while), wrestlers who can't get work with bigger companies will just end up going into business for themselves or propping up shittier promoters...there's always going to be ways that arseholes end up in the business, and it's just a matter of what everyone else can do to minimise that.

My worry, as I've said before, is that promoters and fans alike seem to think that "don't book Travis Banks and David Starr" is the solution. That "don't book people who have already been caught out" will somehow rid the business of abusers, rather than actually pushing people to meaningfully change the environments that allowed abusers to get away with it for so long. Until shows are properly up and running again, it's going to be hard to tell whose codes of conduct are worth the paper they're written on.

[AVM]

I can only speak personally here.

I made allegations nearly a year ago based on a historic occurence whereby a well known female talent had passionately kissed me when I was approximately ten years old - this was witnessed by my best friend and matches several occurences where the talent in question did the same thing with other men (caught on camera at least three times) and in one case what would appear to be a boy according to an article written about a show. I raised my story essentially out of solidarity with female talents who had made their allegations. My intention was to validate their story by sharing my own experience. Statute of limitations expires today.

It was never my intention to 'cancel' any talent. I want to see an acknowledgement by those involved that they have behaved in an unacceptable manner and I want to see changes made - in my case, the talent in question is part of a family of great influence in British wrestling. They have great power to change things.

The immediate response was for members of the family to issue threats (both legally, physically and through incitement) and to slander their accusers (against the women). Then came the 'these people are good people, therefore the accusers are definitely lying' argument and then pretty much whitewashing (i.e. 'we've trained disabled talents, we have a trans talent' etc. - all great stuff, but it doesn't erase the problem).

How do we proceed? Its tricky. The APPG was always limited in what it could do, prosecutions are pretty much impossible with these things unless there's an absolute smoking gun and the intimidation alone was enough to silence some accusers. The positive is libel action is expensive for the accused and the difference in burden of proof favours defendents with evidence. In my case, I was advised I'd have been easily able to prove on the balance of probability what I had alleged had happened. That would have then given the green light for media to report as alleged - something the accused would have desperately wanted to avoid, and frankly so would I. 

The only solution, I think, is education - to ensure these things don't happen again and to understand who the most unrepentant abusers are. 

[chokeout]

13 hours ago, cobystag said:

Alyssa Dawn is an alledged pedophile.

 

 

 

Will you be keeping her on your show?

From the CTX Event thread. Some of the comments on the original tweets are (sadly) exactly what you'd expect 

[Keith Houchen]

Isn’t it refreshing to see someone being universally believed for once and nobody throwing out the “What happened to innocent until proven guilty” stuff. Hope he has all the support he needs. 
 

And without sounding all Loki or a GB News guest, she isn’t a paedophile. 

[Tim Healys Chutney Spoon]

Wasn't sure where to put this, so adding it here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/wrestling/57548121

[Michael_3165]

13 hours ago, Big'Olympic_Hero'Pete said:

Wasn't sure where to put this, so adding it here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/wrestling/57548121

If its just an lgbt in wrestling article I'd move it from here. Don't want the old trope of lgbt being paedos being spread here. Sorry if that sounds defensive, just something I've noticed over the years.

[Chest Rockwell]

I don't think posting that article is making that comparison tbh.. But a positive piece about diversity and inclusiveness in wrestling is definitely completely out of place in this thread.

[Hannibal Scorch]

 

[Guest]

Can someone summarise that candy floss statement, as I have read it a few times last night and today and it’s just not making sense to me. Not sure if she is accused or the victim, or if the claims are true or false from her side? Mental block here 

[uklaw]

1 hour ago, Louch said:

Can someone summarise that candy floss statement, as I have read it a few times last night and today and it’s just not making sense to me. Not sure if she is accused or the victim, or if the claims are true or false from her side? Mental block here 

From what I can gather, concerns were raised about her relationship with another wrestler, with her being a victim of him. A safeguarding report was ordered, I think by Progress, which found no issues within their relationship.

She seems to suggest that it has made no difference and her partner has pretty much been blackballed and she (by association) is being ‘side-eyed’ by promotions and a prominent figure within the SO movement has perpetuated a whispering campaign on other forums (such as Discord) regarding her and her relationship. 

That she has been granted leave by NXT due to the effects this has had on both her and her partner, and that though states the importance of the movement (hence the safeguarding action by Progress in the first place), intimates that the movement ‘believes women’ until a woman says there’s no issue.

I sped read it, so forgive me if I’ve misinterpreted anything.

Edited July 5, 2021 by uklaw

[Keith Houchen]

Is her partner a wrestler / trainer?

[BomberPat]

14 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Is her partner a wrestler / trainer?

Yes, if she's still with the same person, he's a wrestler and promoter. Not sure if he trains anyone.

Also not sure how appropriate it would be to name him, given the context of Candy Floss' statement, I don't know if it would be helpful, hence being vague.

Edited July 5, 2021 by BomberPat

[Gordon_The_Gopher]

At least two companies I'm aware of have followed safeguarding protocols they have outlined, Progress being one of them, and continued to book her partner. Others have just dropped them. 

 

The general message is some people are trying to be SpeakingOut martyrs and causing other people to be treated like pariahs but not the people they're targeting. In this case CandyFloss who, by her own account, has not been the victim of any kind of abuse or manipulation has become the victim of a case of unintended harassment.