The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

[RedRooster]

38 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

Of all the random complaining about AEW for the sake of it, this is the furthest reach. A few of the stories have relied on the audience already knowing who the characters are, but to call that “starting from the middle” is absolutely bonkers.

Do you have any examples of what stories they started from the middle with? Because it genuinely just looks like you are saying random words 

It’s more of a problem with characters and the assumption you know who they are, that should be part of the storytelling process. It’s happened with feuds too I would argue, although ‘starting in the middle’ is an over-simplification there.

Cody/MJF is a good example of a poorly executed feud. They didn’t do anywhere near enough to establish their friendship on Dynamite before the turn. That would have been fine if the subsequent interplay between the two had been strong, but it just hasn’t been. They’ve not even had a face to face interaction yet.

Then you have the Omega/Moxley story, they feud wasn’t well established on Dynamite at all. They accelerated from nought to ‘bloodbath death match’ in no time at all and kept both men away from the mic for far too long meaning they didn’t get the chance to articulate why they were feuding, or the nature of their rivalry. 

Character wise, the Dark Order story was essentially told in reverse order. The vignettes which should have hyped their debut came after a series of underwhelming appearances.

Kris Statlander debuts as the alien with no explanation as to why, earning a title shot weeks after her debut. She’s barely been established.

Whatever reason you place on it, the storytelling process in AEW is, for the most part, very ineffective right now. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

3 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Fair play to them if they didn't just want to go in and push all their boys and focus on getting other talent over.

I hindsight though thats exactly what they should have done - push themselves as the stars.

If AEW is happy to continually cater to its existing audience [who see Omega and the Bucks as stars] then fair enough, but if they want to grow their audience they need legit stars before they can start to think about getting others over and one way to make legit stars is to present those already with a decent following as special and have them win.

I hadnt seen a massive amount of Omega before AEW, just clips here an there, but earlier this year, based on everything I had heard and read etc, I genuinely thought WWE should throw millions at the guy and push him as a WrestleMania main event to keep him away from the new upstart company. His signing with AEW, while inevitable, was 'Wow this could be a game changer' kinda thing for me. Had he been presented as a massive star from the start and kept special then having, say, Hangman Page work with him and beat him may have got him over.

As it is, nobody is getting particularly over [or more over than they were already] because nobody [other than Cody and Jericho] are being kept special and presented as stars [and even Cody is starting to lose that shine in my opinion].

 

[UK Kat Von D]

24 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

It’s more of a problem with characters and the assumption you know who they are, that should be part of the storytelling process. It’s happened with feuds too I would argue, although ‘starting in the middle’ is an over-simplification there.

It isn’t an over simplification, it’s just false. They’ve assumed we have a basic understand of the big names, but they’ve done plenty to establish who everyone is.

I think people are intentionally forgetting that AEW is new. For them to introduce everyone properly to fans going in totally blind, they wouldn’t have been able to put on any matches for weeks 

[DavidB6937]

10 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

It isn’t an over simplification, it’s just false. They’ve assumed we have a basic understand of the big names, but they’ve done plenty to establish who everyone is.

I think people are intentionally forgetting that AEW is new. For them to introduce everyone properly to fans going in totally blind, they wouldn’t have been able to put on any matches for weeks 

They don't have to introduce everyone in any great depth but there have been quite a few that literally have no character development or explanation etc. Or ones that have only really been expanded on through their Youtube shows. That shouldn't be a pre-requisite to understanding the main show. 

[RedRooster]

4 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

It isn’t an over simplification, it’s just false. They’ve assumed we have a basic understand of the big names, but they’ve done plenty to establish who everyone is.

I think people are intentionally forgetting that AEW is new. For them to introduce everyone properly to fans going in totally blind, they wouldn’t have been able to put on any matches for weeks 

I have to disagree. I don’t think anyone is suggesting they should have established everyone straight away, but they should have done more to establish they key players and why you should care about them. Background reading should not be necessary.

I can count myself as someone who went in to AEW with very little background knowledge about the big names and Cody’s career post WWE. 

They did an excellent job of making Cody feel like a big deal, and I would go as far as to say he’s one of the most compelling characters in wrestling right now.

Kenny Omega, on the other hand, I had heard of but had never seen wrestle. I still don’t know why I should care about him. There’s absolutely no reason why they couldn’t have presented him as a star from show one and made people realise why this guy was one to watch.

The same goes for The Young Bucks. Excalibur repeatedly saying they’re many people’s tag team of the year just doesn’t cut it. I’m not even sure they’ve cut a promo on Dynamite yet? 

As for Moxley, I knew who Dean Ambrose was but who is Jon Moxley and why is he different from what we saw in WWE? That should have been established on show one, but that didn’t happen. 

And then there’s the women’s division. Why should I care about Dr Britt Baker? Do they think people naturally love dentists?? And Riho...what’s she all about? They hint at a storyline for Nyla Rose with her suspension, but they’ve not referred back to that, have they?

On the other hand, they’ve done a great job of building up Sammy, Jericho and the Inner Circle and they’ve been fairly effective at making Darby Allin look good.

I’m not hating on AEW for the sake of it, and I actually enjoyed what they were presenting at first. But now the shine is off the intriguing new product the flaws are becoming very clear, and unfortunately they’re not flaws that are easy to overlook. Jericho aside, it just isn’t must-see TV for me.

[UK Kat Von D]

7 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Background reading should not be necessary.

Well yeah, if you really can’t enjoy a product without everything being explained in depth then you should do your research. I’ve been happy enough just watching their YouTube, Dynamite and PPVs. I don’t feel confused as to who anyone is and it seems like we had a similar amount of knowledge going in.

In most TV you have to learn about characters as the show progresses, why is everyone expecting fully fleshed out characters from the start?

Edited December 23, 2019 by UK Kat Von D

[CavemanLynn]

How much tape do they have access to? Did they not have footage to, on their opening show for instance, have JR or Excalibur pipe in during Omega's first entrance to introduce a 30 second sizzle reel, for everyone who has yet to "experience" a Kenny Omega match? Perhaps showing Kenny advancing from green pants to Cleaner to champion in Japan, with a couple of character moments (like him blowing a kiss to the cameras during his Tanahashi match) and finishing with a quick cut splash of One Winged Angels? In 30 seconds, in the middle of an entrance, you'd see him as experienced, exciting, cocky, a sensation overseas returning Stateside. It doesn't need to be ring fenced in the runtime or explicitly stated by him or the commentators. Show, don't tell. Of course, if they don't have rights to this kind of footage, this is all hypothetical, and too late now as the horse has bolted, but it would only have taken a little creativity to integrate it into the show while maintaining its pace.

[Tamura]

14 hours ago, Jonny Vegas said:

Wrestling has been bonkers since day one.

Did I ever say it shouldn't be? I said you have to be careful not to overdo it. You're comparing AEW's 3 months of 2 hours a week TV with 3+ years of WWF TV, when for at least half that time they were producing 4 hours of TV a week, ignoring the B and C shows. In addition AEW's roster is far smaller, so the crap is overwhelming the occasional decent thing they produce.

You have to wonder how this stuff is even making TV or Dark or whatever. Surely they must have production meetings? Did someone really stand up and pitch Emi Sakura as a moustache wearing Freddie Mercury cosplay getting the crowd to clap along to 'We Will Rock You'? Did everyone else agree to this? Wouldn't Tony Schiavone have said "talk about putting asses in the seats"? 

[WyattSheepMask]

13 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said:

How much tape do they have access to? Did they not have footage to, on their opening show for instance, have JR or Excalibur pipe in during Omega's first entrance to introduce a 30 second sizzle reel, for everyone who has yet to "experience" a Kenny Omega match? Perhaps showing Kenny advancing from green pants to Cleaner to champion in Japan, with a couple of character moments (like him blowing a kiss to the cameras during his Tanahashi match) and finishing with a quick cut splash of One Winged Angels? In 30 seconds, in the middle of an entrance, you'd see him as experienced, exciting, cocky, a sensation overseas returning Stateside. It doesn't need to be ring fenced in the runtime or explicitly stated by him or the commentators. Show, don't tell. Of course, if they don't have rights to this kind of footage, this is all hypothetical, and too late now as the horse has bolted, but it would only have taken a little creativity to integrate it into the show while maintaining its pace.

To the best of my knowledge, they only have access to what they’ve put on so far. ROH hold the rights to All In, so unless they come to some sort of agreement, they can’t even use that, which is mad when you think about as it has a good chunk of the AEW roster on it and Cody’s NWA World Title win

They can probably throw Meltzer a few bucks to use photos from the Obsever, but any footage would have to be licensed, which could be costly depending who owns it. Any indies that they’re in with might do it for mates rates, but New Japan will probably ask for a lot more

Edited December 23, 2019 by WyattSheepMask

[RedRooster]

1 hour ago, UK Kat Von D said:

Well yeah, if you really can’t enjoy a product without everything being explained in depth then you should do your research. I’ve been happy enough just watching their YouTube, Dynamite and PPVs. I don’t feel confused as to who anyone is and it seems like we had a similar amount of knowledge going in.

In most TV you have to learn about characters as the show progresses, why is everyone expecting fully fleshed out characters from the start?

Clearly I’m not suggesting that.

Look, it’s indisputable that there are and have been people who criticise AEW for the sake of it. What you’re saying in that respect has merit, I accept that.

However, criticism of the way they’ve presented, or failed to present, the likes of Omega, The Bucks and the entire women’s division is perfectly valid. 

By show 13 I should surely understand why Omega is a big deal and why you should care about him. I should be able to tell you something about who The Bucks are, who Riho and Dr Britt Baker are. But I can’t, because they’ve not given me that information.

And then you have to look at the angles they actually have presented. This is when it becomes subjective, and if you enjoy the Nightmare Collective and Dark Order, great. Power to you. I don’t, and I think the fact AEW has so many similar angles and characters running simultaneously shows signs of a flawed creative process.

Edited December 23, 2019 by RedRooster

[Supremo]

Britt Baker is a dentist.

[DavidB6937]

2 minutes ago, Supremo said:

Britt Baker is a dentist.

Source?

[UK Kat Von D]

Well I feel like I know who Omega and Bucks are. I know who Rhio and Britt Baker are too, but the women’s division is a bit shit anyway 

Edited December 23, 2019 by UK Kat Von D

[Jonny Vegas]

28 minutes ago, Tamura said:

Did I ever say it shouldn't be? I said you have to be careful not to overdo it. You're comparing AEW's 3 months of 2 hours a week TV with 3+ years of WWF TV, when for at least half that time they were producing 4 hours of TV a week, ignoring the B and C shows. In addition AEW's roster is far smaller, so the crap is overwhelming the occasional decent thing they produce.

You have to wonder how this stuff is even making TV or Dark or whatever. Surely they must have production meetings? Did someone really stand up and pitch Emi Sakura as a moustache wearing Freddie Mercury cosplay getting the crowd to clap along to 'We Will Rock You'? Did everyone else agree to this? Wouldn't Tony Schiavone have said "talk about putting asses in the seats"? 

It's something different.

As you say AEW Dynamite is 3 months old. I'd argue that for every think they've done that I find weird or have little to no interest in they've done multiple things that I did enjoy.

I genuinely dont think anything WWE have done this year was very good. NXT excluded.

Is AEW perfect? Not by a long way. Are they immediately fulfilling everything they set out to do? Definitely not. I just think that listing things a company has done which are odd to you in the wrestling business is silly. That's just my opinion.

[Tamura]

23 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

I think the fact AEW has so many similar angles and characters running simultaneously shows signs of a flawed creative process.

I'm not even sure AEW have a creative process. At present it appears that anyone that turns up gets to carry on using whatever weird gimmick they've been using in the indies or in Japan, even if it's not going to work for a mainstream audience.