The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

[Snitsky's back acne]

1 minute ago, tiger_rick said:

It's an alternative to WWE because, and here's the kicker, it's not WWE. 

If the different name, different wrestlers, different commentators, different bookers, different matches and different TV channel don't give it away, just remember- it's not WWE.

Different it is. An alternative it is not. 
 

[Supremo]

1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Alternative to me though is not 'doing the same stuff but a bit differently' or 'well they have different wrestlers'. Maybe that's where I'm not getting that it's an 'alternative'.
ECW was an alternative to mainstream US wrestling in the mid-90's - it had brawls, blood, swearing... all the stuff WWF and WCW DIDN'T have at the time. 
 

Are we talking about the same company? 

- Promos with loads more swearing, with recent interviews involving people calling their opponents, “a piece of shit,” and, “a stupid dick.” A character literally called, “The Bastard,” too.

- A character that’s entire gimmick is that he staples things to people’s foreheads. And when he’s not doing that he’s having thumb tacks duct taped into his mouth.

- Their last PPV was headlined by a CZW-style Death Match where guys were taking unprotected barb wire shots to the head and bumping on glass and mousetraps.

- And as for blood? Well, you know.

All alternative to what we see on WWE television.

Frankly, I think that’s half the reason for the backlash against AEW. All the PG SUX bell-ends who’ve banged on for years have finally been given everything they wanted, only to discover they were wrong all along. It’s not blood~! or swearing~! that makes good wrestling, after all. 

[tiger_rick]

2 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Different it is. An alternative it is not. 
 

Ask Santa for an OED for Christmas. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

1 minute ago, Supremo said:

Are we talking about the same company? 

- Promos with loads more swearing, with recent interviews involving people calling their opponents, “a piece of shit,” and, “a stupid dick.” A character literally called, “The Bastard,” too.

- A character that’s entire gimmick is that he staples things to people’s foreheads. And when he’s not doing that he’s having thumb tacks duct taped into his mouth.

- Their last PPV was headlined by a CZW-style Death Match where guys were taking unprotected barb wire shots to the head and bumping on glass and mousetraps.

- And as for blood? Well, you know.

WWE has had people saying 'shit' and 'bitch' recently too - not alternative.
Blood and death matches? Sure - and if that's what AEW's identity was then I'd say the promotion was an alternative.
It has elements that are different, sure, but as a whole the promotion is no more an alternative to WWE than MLW or Impact are.

 

[Snitsky's back acne]

2 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Ask Santa for an OED for Christmas. 

In the OED [online] there are two different versions of the word 'alternative' - one refers to 'something available as another possibility or choice' [which AEW is] and two refers to 'relating to activities that depart from or challenge traditional norms' [which AEW does not]. 
I am very much referring to 'alternative' in the second sense. 
I'm not saying there are not differences - of course there are, this has been pointed out - but alternative in the second sense? No. It's just not.

[Love-Wilcox]

I knew AEW should've gone with my eight-sided ring idea, that would've really set them apart.

[Supremo]

I wasn’t the one who mentioned ECW or specifically noted, “brawls,” and, “blood,” as indicators of an alternative. All I’m saying is that if that’s the way you’re measuring it then you’ve got a company that’s letting guys bleed all over the shop and jump into thumb tacks with their bare feet, so you should be delighted.

If anything, I think AEW is proving that for all the talk of wrestling fans wanting alternatives or harking back to the Attitude Era, when they’re actually given it they realise how crap it is.

Look, I loved Lucha Undreground as much as anyone, but it was never going to work on a mainstream level. Pro-wrestling is niche as fuck already. Play with the formula even more at your peril. You’re destined for YouTube if you go too far. Similarly, no-one spent more money on ECW VHS tapes back in the day than me, but anything that resembles ECW on AEW, like the Moxley vs. Omega match or most of the stuff involving Janela and Havok, is by far the worst part. That shit has aged terribly and everyone involved looks like a tragic, desperate moron doing it in 2019.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m just in the minority, but half the time when I hear people say they want an alternative I feel like they’re just parroting what they’ve heard someone like Meltzer say. I don’t want an alternative to WWE. I fucking love WWE - when it’s good. And that’s what I want from AEW. Do the promos, do the character vignettes, do the storylines and do the big angles. Just do it in a fun and interesting way without the overwriting and overproducing and commentators reading from scripts and shouting buzz words. That’s when I’ve got the most enjoyment out of AEW so far. Jericho’s daft new character, that comedy sketch with the Inner Circle, Cody punching through some glass and MJF turning on Cody after weeks of teasing. Pure WWE stuff, just taken back to the basic level without sucking all the fun out of it. Bollocks to this, “you need to be more alternative,” stuff. The only alternative they need to be for me is to do what WWE  does better than they have done in ages. You can keep Joey Janela stapling a lit cigarette to his head. I really doubt someone saying, “fuck,” would add much, either.
 

[SuperBacon]

38 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

In the OED [online] there are two different versions of the word 'alternative' - one refers to 'something available as another possibility or choice' [which AEW is] and two refers to 'relating to activities that depart from or challenge traditional norms' [which AEW does not]. 
I am very much referring to 'alternative' in the second sense. 
I'm not saying there are not differences - of course there are, this has been pointed out - but alternative in the second sense? No. It's just not.

This might be the most boring post I’ve ever seen on here. Looking up dictionary definitions? Fucking hell.

[Arch Stanton]

Love that post @Supremo

Hit the nail on the head for me. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

7 minutes ago, Supremo said:

I wasn’t the one who mentioned ECW or specifically noted, “brawls,” and, “blood,” as indicators of an alternative. All I’m saying is that if that’s the way you’re measuring it then you’ve got a company that’s letting guys bleed all over the shop and jump into thumb tacks with their bare feet, so you should be delighted.

If anything, I think AEW is proving that for all the talk of wrestling fans wanting alternatives or harking back to the Attitude Era, when they’re actually given it they realise how crap it is.

Look, I loved Lucha Undreground as much as anyone, but it was never going to work on a mainstream level. Pro-wrestling is niche as fuck already. Play with the formula even more at your peril. You’re destined for YouTube if you go too far. Similarly, no-one spent more money on ECW VHS tapes back in the day than me, but anything that resembles ECW on AEW, like the Moxley vs. Omega match or most of the stuff involving Janela and Havok, is by far the worst part. That shit has aged terribly and everyone involved looks like a tragic, desperate moron doing it in 2019.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m just in the minority, but half the time when I hear people say they want an alternative I feel like they’re just parroting what they’ve heard someone like Meltzer say. I don’t want an alternative to WWE. I fucking love WWE - when it’s good. And that’s what I want from AEW. Do the promos, do the character vignettes, do the storylines and do the big angles. Just do it in a fun and interesting way without the overwriting and overproducing and commentators reading from scripts and shouting buzz words. That’s when I’ve got the most enjoyment out of AEW so far. Jericho’s daft new character, that comedy sketch with the Inner Circle, Cody punching through some glass and MJF turning on Cody after weeks of teasing. Pure WWE stuff, just taken back to the basic level without sucking all the fun out of it. Bollocks to this, “you need to be more alternative,” stuff. The only alternative they need to be for me is to do what WWE  does better than they have done in ages. You can keep Joey Janela stapling a lit cigarette to his head. I really doubt someone saying, “fuck,” would add much, either.
 

I agree and I'm not saying blood and guts is necessarily the answer either - merely citing that was the recipe for a 'true' alternative in the mid-90's American scene because it was not what was being shown in the mainstream wrestling companies at the time.
It's different things at different times.
Maybe it's more that they over-promised the 'alternative' aspect originally - the 'more sports-based' product, the new and innovative OWE company affiliation etc - that the reality has made me go 'Yeah it's not really THAT much of an alternative to anything else out there'.
Just my opinion. Makes no difference to anything in the grand scheme of things. 
 

[DavidB6937]

I couldn't give two shits about what Meltz says. I've just always felt that AEW were trying to sell themselves as an alternative with different ideas and plans etc. Not just "we're going to be like WWE but good."

[Fox Piss]

Proud and Powerful theme is greatest thing about AEW and i'm a fan.

I really think Santana as a Alpha aura to him but he should leave the comedy to Ortiz and play it straight. He should be murdering Marko and not being involved in Matt Jackson wank Northern light suplexes.

[Michael_3165]

10 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

I couldn't give two shits about what Meltz says. I've just always felt that AEW were trying to sell themselves as an alternative with different ideas and plans etc. Not just "we're going to be like WWE but good."

And failing on both accounts apparently...

[tiger_rick]

AEW has been going less than six months, run about ten (?) TV shows, a couple of PPVs and some glorified house shows. The Cody & Dustin and Cody & Jericho matches are up there with the best of the year. They've had a ton of other really good matches by modern standards. Jericho and Cody are cutting the best promos on television regularly. the bits we've seen from Moxley (criminally not enough) and MJF have been brilliant too. Their promo packages are very good. The production, lighting and atmosphere is very good too. In that time, they've also introduced some really promising new faces (on a national level) in Sammy, Allin, Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus, Oange Cassidy and Private Party. Lucha Brothers and Pac are also awesome.

It feels far more like WCW/WWE of old in it's presentation. It's not overly produced. There are glitches. People are far more free to say what they want and that's sometimes good and sometimes bad. But it's far, far more preferrable to the alternative which is over-produced to the point of nauseum.

There are problems. Kenny Omega has underwhelmed, Adam Page isn't really clicking. Janela is shite, Spears isn't anymore than he's ever been. Loads of characters need fleshing out. The matches aren't all for me. I'm as numb to a lot of the spotty stuff as I am when I watch NXT or WWE. The women's stuff is a waste of everyone's time. Commentary is hit and miss.

I think they're doing just fine overall. There is a lot more that I've thought is good than I anticpated I would. Everyone seems to be in their proper place and there are a ton of things you can see paying off in the next year and a lot of people you can see progressing up the card. I find that interesting enough to stick with it week on week.

One area it's really hard to judge is how it's met expectations so far. The TNT number seems reasonable with NXT splitting the audience but we'll never know what they were projecting. We might not find out what money they are making/losing and what they'd budgeted for. This being wrestling, if you ask they'll most likely say they're happy regardless of whether it does or doesn't meet expectation.

It's better than "main roster" (🤮) WWE has been this past few years. Not the biggest NXT fan but I'm not sure AEW is better than NXT. It's far less predictable and the promos are better because NXT still feels like it's all scripted by one bloke. On the other hand NXT's matches generally have much better structure and pacing and they're doing at least as well at presenting new stars. I'd take the big stars from AEW over NXT though and that's not even a debate.

[DavidB6937]

1 hour ago, tiger_rick said:

I'd take the big stars from AEW over NXT though and that's not even a debate.

That's something that's still up in the air for me, and it's one thing that they can't do too much about - my years and years of investment in WWF/WWE/NXT. Something like Survivor Series and the buildup was a wet dream for me in many ways, and there's very little AEW can do in my mind to go up against that.

If I'm honest, it's the same reason why I enjoyed WCW and ECW but in a very different way. Same with stuff like ROH and NJPW. That's not a knock on AEW or any new company coming in and trying to do their best, but it's very hard to compete against something that has been so deeply linked to my life for such a long time now.

I've never been closed off about the competition but it's like being able to enjoy watching other football teams play. You know they're good, and you appreciate their skill and talent on some level but your heart just isn't in it. Granted, it's true to say that loving WWE is like being in a really shit relationship a lot of the time..

I hope AEW gets that chance to stick around and form that bond with more and more people. Obviously they have a solid ground to build on and the fanbase is already extremely passionate but it takes time to really win people over. Can my head be turned? Maybe it can. Maybe it doesn't even need to be. It's not like I'm in an exclusive relationship with WWE after all. I'm more than happy to watch any number of companies as long as I feel they're offering something different that makes them worthwhile to me.