Paid Members BomberPat Posted April 1, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, King Pitcos said: For divs, being held down and buried by the system is a crucial ingredient in liking a wrestler. Yep. And I think (while they've salvaged it into something good) this has been even more egregious in the Kofi Kingston angle. What's frustrating is that there's so little thought that goes into it. The best "WWF babyface vs. authority" angle ever was Over The Edge '98, and they've never topped it. Back then, Vince's dislike of Austin was justified, and rational, and he even took the time to explain, "I can't just fire him, because he makes me money". So Vince had to try and force Austin to tow the company line. He wasn't just tormenting him because Vince is a heel and that's how it works. On Austin's part, and the crowd's, Survivor Series '97 was recent enough that it was fresh in everyone's memory, and we knew that Vince was capable of screwing over one of his golden geese if he thought the company's success depended on it, but Austin wasn't as trusting as Bret, so wasn't going to let it happen. And for every bait and switch the Attitude Era gave us, I don't remember anything as lazy as the Kofi Kingston storyline's, "Vince has just arbitrarily decided you're not getting the match after all, here's Kevin Owens instead". I think the genie's out of the bottle, and I don't know how you fix that. For 20+ years the WWE have conditioned us to believe that the company itself is the bad guy, and that being rebellious enough to not do what the WWE wants you to do is the biggest babyface move you can make. That was cranked up to eleven by CM Punk and then Daniel Bryan, at broadly the same time that more of the (live) audience lent even more in that "smart mark" direction. So now we're in a position where there's no more hated position to be in than "person the biggest wrestling company in the world thinks is the best wrestler". If there's even the suggestion that WWE thinks you're the top star, it's a kiss of death for that section of the fanbase. What they've done brilliantly - if it ever amounts to anything - is convince people that Charlotte's the favourite and Becky the ugly stepkid, when Becky is front and centre of the marketing, won the Royal Rumble, and is main eventing Wrestlemania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Dem Wanz Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 39 minutes ago, King Pitcos said: IDon’t try to work me, Vince, you’re not my real dad. So the dynamic will always be either last year’s WrestleMania main event or this year’s WrestleMania main event, forever and ever, until AEW buys out the WWE in 2022. Your thoughts are usually spot on mate but can you please stop using this phrase every second post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Don't ever stop using that phrase. It's good arrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 I do wonder if the way the audience turned on Ronda Rousey played a part in Charlotte being added to the match. Whether they don't want Ronda to get all the heat or worried that by the time WrestleMania came around us fickle lot would have turned on Becky too. But then I also wonder if it's because they didn't trust Ronda to hold together a one on one match to close the show which would be so long sighted they're not seeing the performer in front of them. Either way, if Ronda doesn't hang around, at least now they've got two term employees they can say broke the glass ceiling and headlined WrestleMania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 1 hour ago, BomberPat said: Yep. And I think (while they've salvaged it into something good) this has been even more egregious in the Kofi Kingston angle. What they've done brilliantly - if it ever amounts to anything - is convince people that Charlotte's the favourite and Becky the ugly stepkid, when Becky is front and centre of the marketing, won the Royal Rumble, and is main eventing Wrestlemania. It is a masterstroke how they’ve managed it with Becky and Charlotte, and it’s worked so well that we could look back on them as this generation’s greatest rivalry, up there with the all-time feuds. I might be forgetting stuff, but this feels to me like the strongest rivalry since Cena vs Punk. There’s Bryan vs Miz and Usos vs New Day, but Becky vs Charlotte has surpassed those for me. The Kofi situation is very odd, it’s so forced. At least with Bryan in 2013/14, there were big musclemen and genuine stars to be the best for business, A-players ahead of him. And even with Becky, Ronda’s a household name and Charlotte’s been the top of the female division for years. But with Kofi, there isn’t a clear motivation there for pushing anyone ahead of him. The WWE Champion is a skinny vegan from ROH, and the bloke Vince replaced Kofi with at Fastlane is a fat lad who looks like a fan. And since Fastlane, there hasn’t even been anyone Vince was pushing ahead of him. The only logic we’ve had from Vince is “well, you’ve been here 11 years, bit suspicious that you haven’t won the title already if you’re any good.” And then we can speculate our own bullshit about it being a racist thing. But there’s little to no sense behind the storyline. It’s a bit like the storylines in the computer games. I used to laugh when playing those and there’d be no WWE title match booked for WrestleMania until the week before the show. It’s still produced some lovely moments though and I get to see Kofi’s WWE title shot on the big stage in person, after years of any mention of him getting a big push just being a joke for people to tag me in response to. So I’m all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted April 1, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 1, 2019 Fucking Beefcake. They really will bring back anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeronimoJacksBeard Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Pitcos and Bomber make some very accurate points. I found it very surprising the level of outrage when Charlotte was initially used to replace Becky, even though they played it up by even having Vince do it on tv! It has become this weird scenario where a true baby face can only be made if they are an Indy darling and/or appear to be being held down by the WWE machine. WWE have been pretty decent at realising that and utilising it in the past, as well as the likes of CM Punk and Daniel Bryan playing it up themselves effectively to build their support, basically working the “smart” fans who think they’re too smarted up to be worked and making them their biggest supporters, despite the company being very high on both from the off-set. And they may well be playing a blinder here too really with Becky. This was very clearly the direction and part of the motivation with the inclusion of Charlotte angle. But, to me there was two obvious, logical big women’s matches (both potentially bigger than the men’s) that could have organically happened for this years show and feels a shame that’s not happening. The girls having two 1v1 matches at the Granddaddy and them being the two most anticipated, one being main event, is probably the best PR they’ve for the “women’s revolution”. That feels like a bit of a wasted opportunity, as does a bunch of matches between those four women over the coming months, if not beyond. I’d have happily lost any of the other matches and had Charlotte/Asuka in there instead. Ready made angle that feels WrestleMania worthy. Oh well. I’m not sure how many think Becky is ushering in a boom period. Didn’t think that was a thing. I’ve noticed her popping up or references to her on socials over the last six months that you wouldn’t necessarily expect her too, but that’s a far cry from sparking a “boom”. There was a definite special buzz and magic around her that just started to happen late last year, that felt like something more than anything else going on or that had gone on for a while. But only on the level of CM Punk in 2011, Bryan a couple of years later as mentioned (although I guess people got fantasies of new eras there too) and maybe even Nexus. Moreover though it just became immediately apparent that Ronda and Becky had this electric chemistry when they interacted and Wrestlemania was the perfect setting for it. It’s a funny one though. I absolutely loved the Charlotte/Ronda match, probably my match of the year. But exactly what I wanted out of Becky v Ronda. What I do think is quite interesting, is this could very well have been the other way around. Charlotte/Ronda was seemingly the initial plan for WrestleMania, before facebreak changed everything. Had Charlotte not had faced Ronda at Survivor Series and it was held off until ‘Mania, you’d probably have ended up with a Daniel Bryan situation with the fans kicking off, forcing a triple threat situation with Becky being added. WWE have just worked it in a way to make it seem like that’s how it’s gone anyway, even though Becky has long been in the match plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted April 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 2, 2019 Brutus Beefcake only narrowly makes my list of top six or seven Dungeon of Doom members that deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted April 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 2, 2019 10 hours ago, GeronimoJacksBeard said: I’m not sure how many think Becky is ushering in a boom period. Didn’t think that was a thing. I’ve noticed her popping up or references to her on socials over the last six months that you wouldn’t necessarily expect her too, but that’s a far cry from sparking a “boom”. Who thinks this? Just replying in case anyone thinks I was suggesting it yesterday. I think there is scope to bring in new fans through a hot feud between two great women, one of whom is a celebrity in her own right. There's never going to be another "boom" as long as we live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Fuck off, there’ll be a BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! when Kofi wins the belt on Sunday. I’ll be marking out, bro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted April 2, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted April 2, 2019 Beefcake cant string a sentence together. That speech better go 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL Punk Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 When I read that Rey Mysterio suffered an ankle injury on Raw, I thought "Great, Baron Corbin has now ruined two perfectly good Wrestle-Mania matches"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfogg1991 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 This must be the most unexciting mania week ive had in bloody years. I will watch it of course but I've read its like 7 hours this year how the fuck can they entertain people for that amount of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of Old School Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 The last 3 have gone close to 7 hours including the preshow, nothing new there. Only this company could ruin there biggest event of the year, the card on paper looks really good this year too, just such a shame that most of it will be played out to complete silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 32 minutes ago, The King of Old School said: Only this company could ruin there biggest event of the year Why are we pretending TNA doesn't exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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