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Monkee

Star Wars Thread - Spoilers, yo.

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Holdo owns my heart :love:

I'm in no way a Star Wars buff, or even much of a fan but I adored this movie. It's pretty much the perfect big hollywood blockbuster, a great story with multiple fleshed out characters and god it looks pretty. Maybe a few too many laughs for some but the kids will dig 'em and they even managed to make the not-ewoks enjoyable and not at all annoying, cool Pokemon cameo too.

How are the ultra nerds taking it? I could see a few things being picked at as they don't fit in with the shitty fanfics. Snoke dying the way he did has to be one but I'm assuming there's a bigger plan at play there, he's no generic big bad (neither was Ben, which I liked).

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I'm not a huge Star Wars nerd too, but, as I've mentioned in the Film thread, I thought Snoke's death was proper unsatisfying. Partly because they did such a good job building him in the first and how much of an after thought he turned out to be - although, the dual between Ren and Rey was very good. It's probably my biggest annoyance (and that Mary Poppins scene). JJ and co did a good job building Snoke and he wasn't much of anything.

When the jokes hit, they were very good (the two Skywalker ones at the end were brilliant), but almost all of them fell flat.

Without question, the highlights of the film were Skywalker related, which was pleasing. Realistically, they could not have created a better death for him. Genuinely may be the high point of the entire series.

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I've seen it twice now, both times while watching it I've utterly loved it - then, when it's settled in my mind I start thinking about things and questioning some decisions made in it - but then I'll watch it again and none of that will matter and I'll love it again.

I laughed, more than I expected to, which was a nice surprise because it's great they didn't feel they had to do the standard "THIS ONE'S DARKER" sequel thing. I cried, because Carrie Fisher; that scene with Leia and Luke will never not get me (ditto her dedication in the credits). I was stunned by some of the visuals, from the Dreadnought at the beginning to Luke stepping through the flames on Crait. And I didn't feel its length at all (a need for the toilet during most of the midnight showing aside - a pint of Coke had kept me awake, but bad move for the bladder) and it held me gripped all the way through, both times.

I was surprised by Snoke on a few levels - I was very happy that he was just some bloke, because I'm very much of the school of thinking where a big reveal of "he's somebody we already know" wouldn't mean anything within the context of the film. It'd feel like pandering to the fanbase rather than the film itself. "I'm actually Mace Windu / Darth Plagueis / etc" when said in front of someone like Rey or Finn isn't going to mean a thing to them, even if it does to us. Even Luke's not likely to have heard of someone like Windu, even if he does know the name Darth Sidious (which was cool, shows he's been doing his research since the original Trilogy). So that was cool. Having him killed so abruptly, without any elaboration on how he came into such power ... it was certainly a surprise. I'm a little bit annoyed we don't know more, but hell, it's not like we really knew much about the Emperor (officially) until the prequels. I've got no idea where they'll go from here, which is a nice position to be in.

The Rey's parents reveal was definitely the right thing to do - it means far more for her to be somebody who is "no one" to have become a hero and to have power than if she'd also been connected to the whole thing. I liked that a lot - she's done what she's done herself, and not because her grandad was Obi-Wan or some shit.

On first viewing it felt a little weird that they'd bring back Phasma only to kill her off soon after, but on second viewing I can appreciate that she got a very nice fight scene, and helped solidify Finn's character development when he proudly calls himself "rebel scum" and labels himself officially part of the Resistance. (One of the criticisms I've seen is that Finn gets nothing to do in the film, which I don't think is quite true. The same people also think Rose was added just to appeal to the Chinese market, which I think's unfair - she could have been a super annoying companion character but I actually liked her a lot more than I thought I would.)

I was also surprised to see Luke and Holdo go, but both of those are in light of Carrie Fisher's death. I'd expected Luke to stay in it as the main 'legacy' character, and Holdo to take on Leia's role in the Resistance. Again, I really don't know where they'll go from here. Open IX with a sombre and grand funeral for Leia, and it's her memory that inspires the new rebellion, rather than her in person? I don't know. Feels a bit like Johnson's dug a hole for JJ to dig back out of, in a way.

I love Porgs. Loads of fun creatures in this one.

Thought Luke's character was handled excellently, Hamill was very good indeed. Yoda appearance was super - "we are what they grow beyond" - but I'm so glad the Jedi texts weren't actually destroyed. Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver were both great too.

The final final scene felt like a post-credits sting, but because they don't do those in Star Wars they had to put it before the credits. I wasn't sure about it either, but there's enough intrigue in it that it'll grow on me (even the idea of the kids playing with a Luke Skywalker toy - one review I read said that it reminds you who these films are really for, and I think that's right.)

I'm glad I've been more than once because frankly, there was a lot to take in - you barely remember that awesome opening battle by the end of the film!

Edited by HarmonicGenerator
overuse of the word 'awesome'

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One thing, I'm surprised by the amount of what were pretty much suicide bombings. You had the woman near the start, Holdo and an attempt by Finn. It makes sense as it shows the desperation of a losing Resistance but it's not something I'd expect from a mainstream movie.

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4 minutes ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

I was also surprised to see Luke and Holdo go, but both of those are in light of Carrie Fisher's death. I'd expected Luke to stay in it as the main 'legacy' character, and Holdo to take on Leia's role in the Resistance. Again, I really don't know where they'll go from here. Open IX with a sombre and grand funeral for Leia, and it's her memory that inspires the new rebellion, rather than her in person? I don't know. Feels a bit like Johnson's dug a hole for JJ to dig back out of, in a way.

 

Yeah, I've been ruminating about this too. I imagine they'll still have Luke around as a ghost, in the same way Obi was for Luke. Although, they did make it rather clear at the end it's about the new characters now. Thankfully the new characters are good fun.

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Just came across a few comments on the Den Of Geek review post on Facebook:

Quote


Fuck the Disney Star Wars franchise now, seeing this arse makes the prequels look good.

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After that horror show Last Jedi. Disney not getting this star wars fans money anymore

Quote

awful awful movie


they finally broke Star Wars

Wowzer.

 

Edit: and some more. To paraphrase Pitcos, you must get Internet Points if you make sure you hate everything.

Quote

Lazy, terribly paced and weak in terms of acting, plot and logic.


Overall...shite

Tone deaf and bloated with half baked ideas and deadweight characters. It's bad in all the ways the prequel trilogy is bad, and then also the lightsaber battles are trash.

 

Sigh.

Edited by HarmonicGenerator

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The only excuse I can think of for Space Leia is that they hadn't shot the close up of her hanging onto a handle so they had to cgi something before she came back through the door.

Ren/Ben is what Ani should have been in the prequels.  The combination of Rian's writing and directing and Adam Driver's acting did the tormented internal tension so much better than anything in AotC or RotS.

I was not the only one in the cinema with wet eyes during the scene with Luke and Leia.  With that in mind, Fisher's death did loom large over the entire thing.  I'm hoping it doesn't jump to the forefront of my mind on every subsequent viewing.

The comedy was on the brink of going too far, but just stayed on the right side.  I thought the Porgs would be front and centre given all the merch around, but they provided some comic relief.  Rey averting her eyes at the milking was very funny.  Not a fan of BB-9E.

Bold move to kill off Snoke, but makes Ren a super badass.  The way it was done was also superbly handled.

Poe's arc was brilliant. Rey being a normie also a great stroke.  I can understand EU fanboys shitting on the film, but if it isn't on film it never happened.  The convolution from the books, comics etc would be essentially unfilmable and unfollowable without 20 books of background reading before watching from Episode 7.

The final battle was corking, but I had visions of Chuck Norris due to Luke's appearance.

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Just been to see. Fuggin' great stuff. Echoing the love for Rey being nobody special; it's good to see the messianic narrative being dispensed with for once. Apart from being hackneyed and cliché, it's also subliminally pernicious IMO.

What I'm loving in particular about these new films is that they're not focused on one protagonist; sure, Rey is pretty much the main character, but Finn gets a lot more than a standard supporting character usually does, as does Poe Dameron. It's becoming less about Jedi/Sith/Force and more about the people involved, which is the right idea, as there's always a danger of over-reliance on Force tricks and light-sabre battles, which I feel is something that affected the prequels (in addition to many other shit things).

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I'm sad that Mark Hamill hasn't had some sort of career resurgrance from these. In my opinion, "Slipstream" was a great film. Then Jerico "Big Area" was also a great soundtrack song from it.

Edited by bAzTNM#1

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Ok, having seen it again today I'm going to uprate my view to flawed masterpiece.  The IMAX 3D version makes the big set pieces look like sex, amazing sex.

The most obvious flaw is that it's possibly too densely packed.  The second viewing opened up so much more.  The other quirk is that, on reflection, the opening crawl kind of makes TFA redundant.  Space Mary Poppins still looked hokey as fuck in IMAX 3D, but I'll close my eyes during that bit in the future.

Things I saw with my eyes (that I am possibly reading too much into):

Finn and Rose's mission was futile, but they provided a spark to that little force broom grabbing lad with the ring (as did the legend of Luke).  Also, leaving things in the past and not going the way we thought it would... In RotJ or ANH that plan would totally have worked.  It's Obi shutting off the tractor beam and Han, Leia, and Ewoks knocking out the shield generator on Endor.

Finn facing down the battering ram cannon also would have been a possible resolution in a previous film, but we're seeing a break from the established Star Wars tropes and greatest hits that we saw up to TFA.

On Crait with Kylo and Luke, Luke's feet don't leave an impression in the mineral salts.  Crikey.

Luke acknowledging the Jedi's hubris caused everything to go wrong is obvious.  The time he mentions the light of the Force not belonging to the Jedi and how to claim so was a vanity was a touch quiet when Rey was on the rock, so that's easy to miss if someone's muching popcorn next to you.

Was it ever confirmed that the Praetorian Guard were the Knights of Ren or just a suggestion?

TENSION.  Rey doesn't resist the dark side.  She looks at it and goes "nah, this isn't for me."  Rather than it being forbidden, don't look, don't touch, resist as a Jedi of old would have been told to do; she stares it down.  At the end when Ren connects once more, she literally (n. Redknapp) closes the door on the darkness.

The visions are right.  Ren won't kneel before Snoke, just not the way you think.  Totally onboard with Snoke's death and it worked so well even when I knew it was coming.

A mate suggested that the Skywalker saga was now finished, but they made a big deal about Ren and his Skywalker blood so it's not officially over.

I think that I could probably watch it a couple more times in the cinema to get under it a bit more.

JJ's got his work cut out for IX to match or top this.

Edit:

Also: no more flying the Falcon through really tight spaces.  That really is one staple that's been done to death.

Edited by johnnyboy

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Great stuff johnnyboy. I’m going again with the other half tomorrow, this is the “really pay attention to stuff” viewing for me!

In this, as in many things, I’m so glad the UKFF exists. I’ve seen so much of this film being shit on on social media and it’s bloody lovely that here exists a place where people can, yes, acknowledge flaws but also still enjoy something and be happy to like things.

 

On the Praetorian Guard, I’m fairly sure they weren’t the Knights of Ren but that’s something the DK Visual Dictionary will confirm when I hopefully get it for Christmas.

I wonder if the Knights will be antagonists in the next film. Kylo by himself is a shit leader but a group of them hunting down the future of the Force could be something for Rey to reckon with.

Edited by HarmonicGenerator
Knights

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4 hours ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

I wonder if the Knights will be antagonists in the next film. Kylo by himself is a shit leader but a group of them hunting down the future of the Force could be something for Rey to reckon with.

Whoever it is Hux will be all-in with him/them the first chance he gets. He revelled in Ren's failure to wipe out the Resistance, but can make no play against Ren or even put himself in place where he could say "We've done it your way, now let's do it mine".

 

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9 hours ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

I wonder if the Knights will be antagonists in the next film. Kylo by himself is a shit leader but a group of them hunting down the future of the Force could be something for Rey to reckon with.

Indeed. It's the biggest "oo, wonder how that plays out" in the film, for me. Hopefully JJ isn't spiteful and has Ren kill them all in their first act.

Honestly, I'm surprised at some of the criticism the film has received. Personally, I thought it was a great film juxtaposed with some really terrible scenes/ideas, but overall it was gripping enough and the 2 and a half hours zipped right by, which is proof enough the good outweighed the bad.

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I loved it.

I think a lot of the bitching is tied into the nature of fanboyism. People who feel ownership of the stories just objecting to the fact that they haven't been given the exact story they've been writing in their head the last two years.

That said Leia Poppins was fucking pony, wasn't it?

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