WyattSheepMask Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Well, that was an absolute car crash. I listened to a bit before I fell asleep, but watched bits this morning. Absolutely awful It was always going to be, and the other two will be because Trump will just keep talking over Biden until the time runs out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 30, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted September 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said: It was always going to be, and the other two will be because Trump will just keep talking over Biden until the time runs out The only way it can work is, separate 45 minute turns, the fact check and correct any points made or they turn off their mics when not being addressed.  America is fucked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted September 30, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted September 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: The only way it can work is, separate 45 minute turns, the fact check and correct any points made or they turn off their mics when not being addressed. Â America is fucked They should have no moderator or questions, but have a chess clock. You can click whenever you like to take your "turn" and put your microphone on, but you only get a total of 45 minutes. Put them in booths so you can only be heard on the broadcast when you're on mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Trump's strategy seems to be completely delegitimise every institution of a democratic election. I'm rifling through the "American Elections: Wicked Game" podcast series at the minute and whilst there are some parallels between Trump and a few of his predecessors, I don't think America has ever been anywhere close to this level of authoritarianism or this near to the collapse of their democracy. I used to get really annoyed by 'Trump derangement syndrome'... but those people had a point, this is fucking nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I thought Biden done a little better than people are giving him credit for. His points were largely what you'd expect - and he still has that unmistakably soporific quality that makes a weekend at Bernie's look like a weekend at Creamfields - but other than a fairly routine amount of stumbling over words, he handled Trump well and stuck to his guns without descending down to that promo cutting level. I realise a few people probably hoped for that from him, but this is pretty much the you do you race anyway. Most camps are firmly entrenched and he's probably better off keeping it as respectful as possible and hoping for the best. I actually do reckon he'll clinch it. And even with the notion that the two party system in America is two right arms and their country is still knackered, not going for the demagogue option surely has to be taken as a wee bit of light at the end of 2020s tunnel. I also think if it does happen, the Trumps will bow out with a surprising lack of fuss. Some of his support base on the other hand will give us an interesting few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators neil Posted September 30, 2020 Moderators Share Posted September 30, 2020 I turned it off after about 10 minutes. I was more curious to see how Biden did, but in general I've stopped watching anything involving Trump (and told many people to follow suit) because so many left leaning people happily tune in to watch Trump just to get angry about it. Thus giving him the ratings he loves so much - especially given that this debate was shown on Fox News last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 30, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted September 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said: And even with the notion that the two party system in America is two right arms and their country is still knackered, not going for the demagogue option surely has to be taken as a wee bit of light at the end of 2020s tunnel. I'm sort of in two minds on all this - I have an American friend on Facebook that's posting being super enthusiastic about Biden and Harris, and it's just not believable, and smacks of some of the worst of the Clinton campaign trying to present Hillary Clinton as a feminist saviour. I'm firmly in the camp that anyone other than Donald Trump is the better candidate, and that people should be doing everything they can to get him out of office, but everything indicates that the Democrats have no idea how to actually reach people. They've put up the least inspiring candidate possible, short of running Clinton again, and most of their attack on Trump tends to be on two grounds - Russia, which is a damp squib as far as the electorate are concerned (not to mention the sheer gall of the American political class pearl clutching over interfering in foreign elections), and his demeanour; most of the political and commentariat class don't really care that Donald Trump is a bigot, they care that he's vulgar about it. There's an old adage that liberals understand tone more than they understand substance - the Democrats are angry that Donald Trump is saying the quiet parts out loud, nothing more. It's impossible to get enthused about Joe Biden. And there's countless reasons to not want him as President, so I don't envy anyone in the position of having to decide whether or not to bite their tongue and vote for him. The biggest problem of it all is that the Democrats have shown absolutely no sign of having learned anything from Donald Trump. Getting him out of office doesn't make him disappear, it doesn't make his supporters go away, it doesn't make the combination of entitlement, fear, distrust and poor education that birthed QAnon go away overnight, it doesn't fix decades of inequality and corruption and de facto racial segregation that the US government have been engendering for years. I honestly think a Biden presidency is just going to be a sticking plaster for four years until someone comes along promising real change and solutions again. And you just have to hope that person will be in the vein of an FDR democrat, rather than a smarter, more palatable Donald Trump that will do all the same things as Trump but intelligently and through the proper channels, so the news media will line up to praise him for being "presidential". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I think America needs a moderate, fairly uninspiring candidate though, a safe hand at the tiller for a bit so everyone can calm the fuck down. To have another big personality with powerful beliefs come in right after Trump would be too much of a whiplash and would cause even more unrest, plus it could split the vote even closer because it’s become clear how much people respond to a confident character regardless of content. We had a CEO come in at our work about 4 years ago who was brought it specifically to stop the company going under. To be clear, he had zero credentials in terms of boosting company growth or turnover; his entire career was being parachuted in, reorganising, securing funding, then getting out. Biden is not the guy to usher in a brave new world, but is the guy to put the brakes on America’s current descent into fascism, getting it back to a level-headed square one ready for the next earth mover. I think he handled the debate better than I thought he would. He seemed prepared and stuck to his guns re: policy and image, counteracting Trump well, especially on those split screen shots at the end of Joe smiling to camera and a Trump scowling at his opponent. I can’t see Biden doing more than one term, purely on his age, so he’s definitely an interim champ, to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 30, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted September 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said: I think America needs a moderate, fairly uninspiring candidate though, a safe hand at the tiller for a bit so everyone can calm the fuck down. I think/hope that you're right, but I think too many people - and the Democrat establishment especially - are seeing "back to normal" as the end goal, which completely overlooks that Trump happened largely because "normal" wasn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 America needs someone that doesn't look like they need to have a nap in front of Countdown. I loved my Grandad, but fuck me he wouldn't have made a good president at 78. I watched about 10 minutes of the 'debate' as I was up, and had to turn off. It was just pathetic. You almost (almost) have to admire the sociopath ideology of Trump, that he just doesn't give a shit what you say, as he just responds with "Fake news" or "That's a lie". Imagine having that level of ego. I apologised the other day because someone else's dog jumped up at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 30, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, SuperBacon said: You almost (almost) have to admire the sociopath ideology of Trump, that he just doesn't give a shit what you say, as he just responds with "Fake news" or "That's a lie". Imagine having that level of ego. I apologised the other day because someone else's dog jumped up at me. the armchair psychologist in me would say that absolutely every aspect of his personality can be explained by the fact that he's never had anyone tell him he can't have what he wants, and has never had anyone tell him he was wrong that he couldn't fire and replace with someone who'd tell him he was right. It covers his attitude towards women, his deranged thinking out loud approach to policy, the entire reason he became president in the first place. If he doesn't like something, he just gets to say "no" and it goes away. The problem is that it's exposed the weaknesses of the political system. We're used to the idea that a scandal will topple a president, and that being caught in a lie is a major political incident. But it turns out that if you just lie with impunity, there's nothing anyone can do about it, and that if you're entirely without shame in the first place, you're immune to scandal. Edited September 30, 2020 by BomberPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, BomberPat said:The problem is that it's exposed the weaknesses of the political system. We're used to the idea that a scandal will topple a president, and that being caught in a lie is a major political incident. But it turns out that if you just lie with impunity, there's nothing you can do about it, and that if you're entirely without shame in the first place, you're immune to scandal. And that’s the other run: he’s not doing anything any other president could have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, CavemanLynn said: And that’s the other rub: he’s not doing anything any other president didn't have the power to do.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 6 hours ago, BomberPat said: I'm firmly in the camp that anyone other than Donald Trump is the better candidate, and that people should be doing everything they can to get him out of office, but [...] It's impossible to get enthused about Joe Biden. And there's countless reasons to not want him as President, so I don't envy anyone in the position of having to decide whether or not to bite their tongue and vote for him. As you rightly said the first time, there's no choice to be made here. Biden might be nobody's ideal candidate, but this is not a time for idealism. The car's on fire - jump out now and worry about how you'll clean the mud off your jeans later. Anyone who has to hum and haw about whether to vote in this election gets no empathy from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofSports Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I watched it in its entirety. Biden got fucking mauled. It's a win/win situation. Either way, you're gonna get a prick. Great fun watching America behave like a 3rd World country. November should be truly excellent. Gonna get me some chlorinated chicken to celebrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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