Guest Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) While they didn't instigate the coronavirus, Republicans have spent a lot of time this year (since the outbreak) actively fighting against efforts to allow early counting of postal votes, while at the same time discouraging their supporters from using this method. They have created this scenario. (They have also been the virus' greatest ally, but I'll stop short of accusing them of deliberately killing hundreds of thousands to try and steal an election.) Edited November 5, 2020 by Uncle Zeb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted November 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, Uncle Zeb said: While they didn't instigate the coronavirus, Republicans have spent a lot of time this year (since the outbreak) actively fighting against efforts to allow early counting of postal votes, while at the same time discouraging their supporters from using this method. They have created this scenario. What I was rudely and dismissively rubbishing was the idea that Trump had been planning this for "years". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I know. Just clarifying for anyone who might have come away with the impression he therefore had nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 10 hours ago, SuperBacon said: For a minute I was worried, but seeing it on Twitter...must be ok. In all seriousness though, going down the route of "voter fraud!" is proper tinfoil hat shit. I'd love to see some concrete evidence. Not suggesting you believe that at all, in fact I'm pretty certain you don't, but there is being healthily cynical and just ridiculous. What's the alternative? For the purpose of absolute clarity, no, I don't believe it could have happened on a grand enough scale to actually matter, but I was simply addressing the notion that there are flaws in the system. Let's be honest, if the roles were reversed at the moment and it was Trump who was looking like winning due to postal votes, and Biden's team were claiming that officials were being blocked from viewing counts you can bet that many of the smug, dismissive Democrat types out there on social media would be reacting in exactly the same way as Trump fans are. And vice versa. These things are only ridiculous when it's the other side who's claiming that they're happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofSports Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 At this point, it's looking like Biden might just hit 270 and no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted November 5, 2020 Moderators Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, David said: Let's be honest, if the roles were reversed at the moment and it was Trump who was looking like winning due to postal votes, and Biden's team were claiming that officials were being blocked from viewing counts you can bet that many of the smug, dismissive Democrat types out there on social media would be reacting in exactly the same way as Trump fans are. And vice versa. These things are only ridiculous when it's the other side who's claiming that they're happening. Nah. This is bollocks. Even if the supporters were doing it that's very different from the candidate saying 'shows over folks, nothing to see here, stop counting' and then actually trying to follow through on that with legal action. Can you really imagine Biden doing that? This is a really bad scenario in which to try to pull out the 'both sides' argument because it really doesn't wash. Edited November 5, 2020 by Chest Rockwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted November 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2020 41 minutes ago, David said: Let's be honest, if the roles were reversed at the moment and it was Trump who was looking like winning due to postal votes, and Biden's team were claiming that officials were being blocked from viewing counts you can bet that many of the smug, dismissive Democrat types out there on social media would be reacting in exactly the same way as Trump fans are. And vice versa. In fairness, there's a benefit of the doubt element here too. Trump has been flouting protocol and electoral regulations for years, and has all but said that he would steal this election by any means possible, and was crowing about rigged elections months ago, and in 2016 before he ended up winning. I'm not suggesting that the Democrats are squeaky-clean, but an allegation that Trump's team were messing with the count would carry a lot more weight than the inverse, it wouldn't be being made in a vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 9 hours ago, JNLister said: Nuke North Korea? He'd probably even screw that up and end up nuking South Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Just now, Chest Rockwell said: Nah. This is bollocks. Even if the supporters were doing it that's very different from the candidate saying 'shows over folks, nothing to see here, stop counting' and then actually trying to follow through on that with legal action. Can you really imagine Biden doing that? Again, if Trump was winning and we were seeing claims from Biden's team that they were being blocked from viewing counts and so forth, the other side would be screaming blue murder about a vote-fix, just the same way as the Trump side is. Of course they would be. Everyone on that side of the fence would be claiming he's stealing the election. Or do you think they'd just be accepting it and moving on with their lives? Again, I'm not claiming that Trump supporters or officials wouldn't be capable of doing the same thing if the roles were reversed. In fact, they'd be even more capable of it in my opinion, but that doesn't mean the Dems are above playing dirty. 3 minutes ago, BomberPat said: In fairness, there's a benefit of the doubt element here too. Trump has been flouting protocol and electoral regulations for years, and has all but said that he would steal this election by any means possible, and was crowing about rigged elections months ago, and in 2016 before he ended up winning. I'm not suggesting that the Democrats are squeaky-clean, but an allegation that Trump's team were messing with the count would carry a lot more weight than the inverse, it wouldn't be being made in a vacuum. Absolutely. I'm not claiming for a second that Trump's team is anything close to being above reproach on the matter. There's a strange fixation (not from you, I may add) that if you suggest that one side could be guilty of shenanigans that you're automatically a supporter of the other side, which isn't always true. I have no skin in this game. I believe there's people on both sides who would happily fuck with the voting system if it meant getting their guy into the White house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewdogg Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Now there's 'sharpiegate' 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted November 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2020 10 hours ago, garynysmon said: Even Fox News seems to have given up, declaring states for Biden ahead of CNN and defying Trump demands for Arizona to go back into the grey column. In fairness, that rift has been growing for a while and there have been alleged murmurings that Trump plans to set up his own "news" network regardless of the result of the election because Fox aren't "honest" enough. It feels like Biden is going to take the win, but who knows? It's so close. Sadly, I suspect there might be some unrest if he does, because Trump's base is so fanatical, although I can also see the Trump legal wranglings rumbling on to the point of becoming embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Arizona is making me extremely nervous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted November 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted November 5, 2020 1 minute ago, mim731 said: In fairness, that rift has been growing for a while and there have been alleged murmurings that Trump plans to set up his own "news" network regardless of the result of the election because Fox aren't "honest" enough. This was the rumour I heard consistently even before the 2016 election - that his whole campaign was basically designed to be a launchpad for whatever media project he had in mind. In terms of how the Trump base react, it's basically going to be a combination of a lot of hot air combined with a rerun of the Tea Party, and a handful of fringe lunatics that you have to genuinely worry about. Someone will get shot, there will be protests and hanged effigies, and all the while they'll be saying "but Antifa". Whatever happens, this is going to drag on for months. Trump will tie it up legally for as long as he's able, and continue to sow doubt in the public eye and fight to undermine Biden's presidency for months, if not years, to come. The suggestion of a "stolen election" is going to hang over Biden worse than it ever did over Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 So where does it all end? surely there must come a point where the election has to be called, he can’t just tie it up in the courts forever, especially as he asking others to pay for it. Surely there must come a point where someone has to say “face it, you’ve lost”, or is he just going to be able to keep kicking & screaming as long as the funds are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said: So where does it all end? surely there must come a point where the election has to be called, he can’t just tie it up in the courts forever, especially as he asking others to pay for it. Surely there must come a point where someone has to say “face it, you’ve lost”, or is he just going to be able to keep kicking & screaming as long as the funds are there? It ends in January, doesn't it? He'll walk away claiming he was robbed, but he will walk away. Beneath the bravado and sneering he's smart enough to know it'll be game over, and he'll move on to cashing in on his infamy and status the way most former Presidents have. The bigger question is, what does it leave behind? Because it won't be a country that's anywhere close to being cohesive enough to provide Biden with an opportunity to govern effectively. It's going to be one huge shit show for a long time to come. 2024 will be the first opportunity for America to even attempt to return to a semblance of normal, where we'll see a different candidate on both sides of the spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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