It's today then ... (Trump thread)

[tiger_rick]

 

[SuperBacon]

16 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

Ah no way. I'm not having this. Rappaport is great. I think I'm biased because he's a huge hip hop head but he's a good actor too and seems like a decent guy.

P!

Nah, I think he's a pretty shitty person, but keen not to turn this into the Michael Rapaport thread. Just because he loves hip hop, doesn't mean he gets to have a continuous say on black culture over black people (well aware this isn't what you're saying though). I think he is the worst example of a culture vulture, but just my opinion. Nice t shirt though

Plus he shot a pigeon from his bed.

[Chest Rockwell]

Fair enough. I don't really know a great deal about him and you seem much more informed!

[Jazzy G]

[JNLister]

Assuming Biden goes one term, Trump running again could create this weird situation where the Republicans will only back him if they think he'll win, but that might be hard to tell without knowing who the Democrat candidate will be.

If the Republican establishment decides they don't want him and get their act together, they can stop him getting the nomination. He only got it last time because the Republican primaries are winner-take-all, so you can rack up delegates just by getting a solid 30% or so if there's a divided field. Had they realised early enough and grouped around one "mainstream" candidate, he'd have struggled. 

Of course, there is always the entertaining prospect of him running third party. 

[Chest Rockwell]

5 minutes ago, JNLister said:

Of course, there is always the entertaining prospect of him running third party. 

That sounds like a way to get a guaranteed Democrat win, surely if he threatens that the GOP will cave?

[David]

2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

I don't think there's any guarantee of that. Nothing stopping him doing a Grover Cleveland and running again in 2024, assuming his base stand by him for that long - and the only reason they won't is if someone else comes along to do the job better.

Wow, I hadn't even considered that. I assumed he'd be "one and done" to be honest. Always figured he'd be of the mindset that he'd conquered this particular hill and could now swagger away satisfied that he'd done it.

You could be right, mind you, but I really hope not.

2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

This has been my concern all along. A Biden victory isn't restoring sanity, and there's been a massive problem throughout Trump's presidency of treating him as an aberration rather than as a depressingly predictable, inevitable end result of American capitalism and the polarisation of their political system. Without addressing the underlying problems of gross inequality, the swamp that spawned Trump isn't going away, nor is there any guarantee that the Republican Party revert to any semblance of normality (though, again, Trump isn't the deviation from mainstream GOP policy that "moderate" Republicans like to paint him as, so much as just saying the quiet parts loud). And that's before even considering Biden's ability to actually govern under the circumstances, given how much Republican control is going to remain in Congress.

Yeah, I'm no student of U.S. politics by any stretch, but I gather this last part is key? 

A lot of people believe that Biden can come in and simply wave a wand and reverse much of the damage Trump has done, but it doesn't quite work that way. Much the same as the critics who lambast Obama for not doing as much as many hoped during his term. Again, he wasn't allowed to just come in and assume the role of dictator for the eight years. There's checks and balances in place.

On the flip-side, those checks and balances are also what stopped Trump from going full-on mentalist and just running roughshod over the country as he'd have liked. Not that he didn't try, mind you.

2 hours ago, Steve Justice said:

Speaking of Kamala Harris, I was thinking this morning how a relation between her/Biden will be with Boris Johnson given his despicable history of racism.

I could be way off, but I don't think it'll be much of a problem. Harris is a politician first and foremost. If it makes sense to work with Johnson then she'll do it. 

2 hours ago, jazzygeofferz said:

I meant more in terms of whether either party will attempt to put forward a candidate that isn't an old white guy. If she does a "good job" as Vice President in the eyes of the electorate it'd be an indication of whether they want to push the boat out and risk a candidate that isn't an old white guy.

The problem I have with scenarios like this is that while she may not be an old white guy, she'll have to be endorsed and approved by old white guys, which usually means that she isn't going to do much to piss them off.

Sure, it provides a more progressive face that may make some of the electorate feel better, but it's the same shit going on in the background for the most part, isn't it?

As @Chest Rockwellsays, there's nothing to suggest that she'd do anything differently from the usual suspects. 

In fact, it could be said that the candidate who could have done things a bit more differently was Bernie Sanders, who is....an old white guy. There's a reason why he would never get the nod for a clear run at Trump. 

Given the choice, the powers-that-be in the Democratic party would rather Kamala Harris was their candidate than Bernie Sanders, all day long. In my opinion anyway.

 

[garynysmon]

46 minutes ago, JNLister said:

Assuming Biden goes one term, Trump running again could create this weird situation where the Republicans will only back him if they think he'll win, but that might be hard to tell without knowing who the Democrat candidate will be.

If the Republican establishment decides they don't want him and get their act together, they can stop him getting the nomination. He only got it last time because the Republican primaries are winner-take-all, so you can rack up delegates just by getting a solid 30% or so if there's a divided field. Had they realised early enough and grouped around one "mainstream" candidate, he'd have struggled. 

Of course, there is always the entertaining prospect of him running third party. 

Well, he almost did for the Reform Party in 2000 didn't he? The Democrats would love that, would end up splitting the right-wing vote like Ross Perot in 1992 which allowed Bill Clinton a clear run.

It needs to be remembered that many traditional republicans can't stand Trump and his ways and pretty much hold their nose when backing him. Its a far from stable coalition.

I'm sure that many republicans will even be relieved that Trump is out of office and hope to see the back of Trumpism's hijacking of their party.

 

[Carbomb]

1 hour ago, LaGoosh said:

Basically the next decade or so will be terrible until our lord and saviour, the goddess AOC can become President and save the world ❤❤❤

That's a lot to expect from a Liverpool midfielder

1 hour ago, tiger_rick said:

Georgia has got really, really close but not a lot to report. PA has closed massively too. Good chances for Biden in both states. Arizona does look iffy now. As neil (I think) pointed out, lots of the remaining ballots are from out of the main cities which tend to be red. really is fascinatingly close.

The Cities almost all being blue is fascinating too. Even in the Southern and Central states Trump has dominated, if you look at the map, almost anywhere with a big city is blue. You'd almost expect it to be the other way round with Republicans, and particularly Trump, being vocal on economics. But all of the big cities are against. Not too dissimilar in this country.

A major factor in that is cultural flows, for which cities are usually a confluence. By which I don't mean stuff like TV, film, etc., although that is a part of it; specifically, what you get when you live near to and come into contact with people from other cultures, whether that be ethnic, religious, creed, economic demographic, sexuality, and so on. Bear in mind that a big part of conservative politics, especially in times of extremes like this, relies a lot on people's fear of The Other. It's often joked that "a liberal is just a conservative that hasn't been mugged yet", but it's cliché for a reason: because very often you see people turning conservative over fears of losing their jobs, their security, their peace of mind, and their health, and conservative politicians have made an art of using The Other as a means of stoking the flames of those fears, as we've seen throughout history, and as people consistently refuse to fucking learn.

It becomes very difficult to demonise people to people who live next door to them or meet them on a daily, if not hourly, basis, because they're no longer just faceless, abstract entities to be blamed.

Obviously, this isn't 100% true for every single city dweller; the richest parts of big cities tend to vote Tory/Republican for the obvious reason that it protects their interests and saves them money, and also because their wealth keeps them in a bubble away from the oiks that they are therefore less likely to develop any kind of direct empathy with.

14 minutes ago, JNLister said:

Of course, there is always the entertaining prospect of him running third party. 

If there's anyone who currently could in American politics, it's probably him. His supporter base is sufficiently cultish that he could definitely get the largest number of votes a modern third-party candidates has ever had.

[The King Of Swing]

Republican politicians were by large fully on board with Trump.

There was no hijacking imo, Trump just said what they were not willing to say in public. 

[Hannibal Scorch]

 

[SuperBacon]

4 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

 

Wonder what account they stole that off to pass off as their own this time?

5 minutes ago, The King Of Swing said:

Republican politicians were by large fully on board with Trump.

There was no hijacking imo, Trump just said what they were not willing to say in public. 

I dunno, a lot of Republicans I've seen interviewed over the last few days have seemed very much against Trump and seem to be saying "Get this done, and regroup".

The advantage the right have over the left, not just in the States, is that they will hold their nose for the great of the party, and cease infighting and feuds, which is what they might have been doing with him.

[Carbomb]

2 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

I dunno, a lot of Republicans I've seen interviewed over the last few days have seemed very much against Trump and seem to be saying "Get this done, and regroup".

The advantage the right have over the left, not just in the States, is that they will hold their nose for the great of the party, and cease infighting and feuds, which is what they might have been doing with him.

On Al Jaz they were discussing a group of Republicans who've been so dismayed with Trump they're actively campaigning for Biden. These are usually the ones from the "softer" wing of the party, like McCain.

The notorious "discipline" of the right is both an advantage and a disadvantage, as we're seeing now. On the one hand, you're right in that it makes them a lot more solid than the left usually is, largely because they tend to keep sight of general things they want to have, like free market capitalism and small-state governance, etc., rather than fall out over finer points of dogmatically-held principle, like the left.

However, what we're seeing now is the consequence of that "discipline" - it's costing the Republican party, because they're now seen as having ditched all but their cruelest principles just to get into and hold onto power.

They needn't worry, though. The US is a right-wing country, meaning that, like the UK, their right-wing party will be forgiven for its excesses a lot more easily than the more left/less right-wing one. This is a country that, upon having a Republican president resign over corruption and then have his stooge replacement pull an old boys' act with an immediate pardon, only gave the next Democratic president four years before electing another Republican.

[Jazzy G]

They were probably hoping something would happen to Trump and they could backdoor Pence into the presidency. 

[SuperBacon]

5 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said:

They were probably hoping something would happen to Trump and they could backdoor Pence into the presidency.