The Official UKFF RAW Thread...

[Vamp]

For me, it's context. Had he done it to a 8 year old in a high school gym with about 50 people in, that's not really cool. But in a big crowd, aimed at a adult male, I don't really see the big deal with it. He didn't use any slurs or biggoted phrases like he has done in the past, so it all seems a big fuss over not a whole lot. Crowd popped for it, at the very least.

 

You're right, its context. Here's a massive promotion that encourages audiences to react how they want to react and does an anti-bullying campaign and there's one of the big babyfaces being precious because a fan didn't follow the script and then using personal insults to belittle the fan in front of a massive arena full of people before goading him into a fight because this one fan dared to voice an opinion. Maybe Punk does genuinely believe that anybody who reacts against him really should be 'voiceless.' Cena's the good guy because he genuinely loves the fans doing whatever they want but also rises above the fact that he continuously gets knocked down. Punk's the good guy because he voices his anger against a paying fan who's presumably bored of an angle? Punk's whole shtick was that he was the voice of the fans who had opinions which weren't the ones they were expected to have. Now he's berating a guy for having the opinions he doesn't expect them to have? And that's meant to make us want to see him kill Heyman? The problem I have with Punk when he's a babyface is I neither like him nor do I want to be like him. I like Cena because he's' actually a man about such things. I'd like to be Cena because he seems like the coolest guy in the world. I wouldn't even be friends with someone like CM Punk in real life. I'd walk off and think "what a dick." If he got into a fight I'd think "heh, that prick deserves it" and then when someone told me he'd got the shit beaten out of him I'd be like "well, yeah, go figure."

 

I'm genuinely confused by the adoration for Punk. When he's a heel he comes across like he's trying to be loved by wrestling audiences, which confuses me no end. When he's a face and trying to be cool I genuinely think he's the biggest dork on the roster. I cannot think of anyone in the WWE less cool than Punk. He's the biggest try hard going. Cena's all "I don't care that they're booing me, I'm just loving this, loving being a wrestler and loving who I am." Punk's all "stop booing me fatty bum bum I only want people to like me, like me, please like me, I'll say the things you want me to say, oi bitch stop booing me or I'll cut ya!" I don't get how it's possible to think Punk's the cool one out of them two. This isn't an insult to the Punk fans. I think Punk's capable of great matches. I just don't get why anybody would think he's cool unless they also thought the chavs outside the corner shop were also cool. Bryan's cooler than Punk too. In fact, so are The Matadors and they haven't even had a match yet. I'm not even that bothered that Punk insulted a fan because hey, at least he didn't punch him this time, but he is a bit rubbish at being a face sometimes. It's like he thinks his storyline is brilliant and the fans shouldn't have any say on it. But then he needs to get out of wrestling because it'll give me stomach ulcers.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Vamp hit on an important point, John Cena is actually the nicest, coolest guy on the planet.

 

Seriously, search John Cena on youtube. Once you've waded past WWE clips, or fan videos, there's a mountain of stuff with Cena going to schools, universities, hospitals etc and just being the man.

 

And for all the shit his critics say about 'wrestling', I'd say between the two CM Punk seems to be the most eager to distance himself from pro-wrestling. He spends his times pretending to be in punk bands, or whittering on about BJJ classes or being obsessed with hockey and mocking wrestling fans. Spend five minutes going through CM Punks twitter feed, he spends an inordinate amount of time blocking people for no reason other than being normal twitter wrestling fans.

 

He has great matches does Punk, but he's a right berk.

Edited August 22, 2013 by d-d-d-dAz

[Big Rob]

I'm not saying it was awesome, or he should have done it - he probably shouldn't have. But it's really nothing in the grand scheme of things, if it was they would have probably got an insincere apology out of him by now, ala the vagina incident.

[Vamp]

I dunno, the WWE have a bit of a hard on for Punk.

 

being obsessed with hockey

 

Punk's obsessed with hockey? Fuck. Now he's cool.

 

Although that makes the way he treated his match with Brock even more baffling. I didn't really get the whole "I'm gonna do MMA training so I can beat a former MMA champion." He should have come out with hockey padding and a hockey stick.

[HarmonicGenerator]

I dunno, the WWE have a bit of a hard on for Punk.

 

being obsessed with hockey

 

Punk's obsessed with hockey? Fuck. Now he's cool.

 

Although that makes the way he treated his match with Brock even more baffling. I didn't really get the whole "I'm gonna do MMA training so I can beat a former MMA champion." He should have come out with hockey padding and a hockey stick.

 

I think he needs The Goon to come back and help him deal with Heyman. That's your first member of Team Punk at Survivor Series.

[PunkStep]

Does anyone detect a Cena VS Orton main event at Mania? Orton VS Bryan over the next few months, then perhaps Bryan VS HHH finally happens at Mania (if they can stretch it out that long). Cena returns in time for Mania, where he challenges the Corporation's jewel Orton. Bit Mania 15ish about it.

[UK Kat Von D]

That would literally never work as an excuse anywhere else in life, only with wrestlers who fans are keen to rationalise for.

 

'Sorry love, but you know me... I'm known for my raping...'

 

Monday was the least of his sins, but its still a bit shitty. Riffing on a crowd member, insulting them, because it furthers a pretend storyline is a bit naff. Whether or not the fan enjoyed it is just conjecture, and more rationalising.

 

If you can't convey the emotions of the story from within the confines of the story then you clearly aren't as good as you think you are.

 

Using rape to make your point is pretty shit. Not cool. If you cant convey the point of your argument from within the confines of the subject then you clearly aren't as good a poster as you think you are.

 

The only people I can imagine not liking that segment are fat guys or people who just don't like 90% of the things that Punk does.

[Jas]

Does anyone detect a Cena VS Orton main event at Mania? Orton VS Bryan over the next few months, then perhaps Bryan VS HHH finally happens at Mania (if they can stretch it out that long). Cena returns in time for Mania, where he challenges the Corporation's jewel Orton. Bit Mania 15ish about it.

 

Cena vs Orton is not WM30 main event worthy in my opinion. WM30 will however end with Cena's arms being raised against god knows who. No way will it end on Bryan lifting the title.

 

I can see the undercard being Bryan vs Triple H for the WWE Title, Brock vs Rock and the main event Cena vs Undertaker or maybe Austin or Punk thrown in there somewhere I don't know - although I'm not sure sure Vince would want two massive marquee matches on the same ppv when either match could headline it's own WM.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Using rape to make your point is pretty shit. Not cool. If you cant convey the point of your argument from within the confines of the subject then you clearly aren't as good a poster as you think you are.

 

The only people I can imagine not liking that segment are fat guys or people who just don't like 90% of the things that Punk does.

 

I love that you thought you could make that post and sound something over than snide.

 

I made a point that the excuses being made for Punk, much like they were when he hit someone and used misogynistic and homophobic insults, wouldn't work in any other walk of life. I then used an exaggerated example to make my point.

 

Also, I didn't make light of rape in any way. Rape isn't like Voldemort, you're allowed to talk about it.

 

But, hey, if me having a negative opinion of Punk hurts your FAGGOT VAGINA then I better hit you.

 

I also love how you think that only fat people can find it a bit off when a highly paid performer calls a paying customer 'fat'. That's really weird.

 

I find lots of things offensive without being the recipient.

 

 

 

 

*edit* I've just discovered Punk called a fan a 'homo', not a faggot. That's better. Seriously, that should be enough to stop anyone idolising him, or thinking he's cool. Jesus.

Edited August 22, 2013 by d-d-d-dAz

[Arch Stanton]

The only people I can imagine not liking that segment are fat guys or people who just don't like 90% of the things that Punk does.

I'm far from being a big fan of Punk, and I'm properly bored of this discussion, but that pretty much sums the situation up for me.

 

There were far more interesting things happening from top to bottom on this episode that we could be talking about.

 

I'm delighted to see the birth of the new 'Corporation'. The McMahons, Triple H, Randy and The Shield all looked so damn good standing tall at the end of the show. A proper set of bastards they were too. I'll echo the comments about Steph being great in her promo. Shame that Triple H dragged out a two minute point into what felt like a fifteen minute monologue in the final segment, but other than that I was really into absolutely everything that happened with this angle on Monday night. It felt like a classic Attitude era episode, with a story than ran right through the show. Some people complained about Bryan not getting any of his heat back the night after being screwed, but that was absolutely the right move. Get the heels white hot first.

 

I loved the idea of having the regime punishing the babyfaces that had spoken out about Triple H on Twitter. Thought that was a great way of using social media in a manner that actually made sense to the show. Even better that they had Maddox be the one to go out there delivering the news to them, I really like him in this role so far.

 

I'm worried about the Wyatts. The smoke and mirrors have been pulled away and the act is exposed. Right from the beginning I voiced my concerns about this happening- the whole character is fantastic, but it demands some real energy to be fed into it from the creative team. Without an engaging story it's just a bunch of NXT guys having not very good matches. These guys aren't The Shield. I'm not sure they had thought too much about where they were going to do with them beyond Kane. If Bray goes into a run of squash matches against the R-Truths and Ryders of the world for the next few weeks, all the buzz around them will have evaporated completely by the time the creative team have figured out what to do with them next.

[Vamp]

The only people I can imagine not liking that segment are fat guys or people who just don't like 90% of the things that Punk does.

 

Bless.

[Daaaaaad!]

I generally like Punk and the segment was fine for me, but shouting at fans comes across as amateurish and also reeks of heel behaviour. It's small time and generally the sort of thing that Punk has managed to finally raise himself above in these last few years.

[Reznor]

I'm just surprised it's become such a talking point as i barely gave it a second thought when I watched it. The most notable thing I remembered about watching Punks promo was him fucking up a sentence and coming out with something which made no sense like 'i'll render you ... to tears". Maybe he meant 'reduce'

 

It's just punk being punk. He is what he is, whether heel or babyface, and his fans don't really expect him to be all sickly sweet. He's a dick, but to those who like him, and have followed and invested in him over the years, he's their dick.

 

However much of an anomoly he is, it works for him and he's entertaining as hell because of (or despite) it.

[d-d-d-dAz]

That's probably about right. Good post Reznor.

 

I think it's what makes Punk/Cena feuds so much fun. Everyone seems to care about one or the other, rather than not really giving much of a shite. They're such wildly different personalities, that'd it'd be impossible to empathise with both.

[TheShowOff]

I could happily live out the rest of my days without seeing another Cena vs Orton match. They have clashed so many times, for so many reasons, in so many different match types, I'm well passed caring about anything they could do.