WWE Vault Appreciation Thread

[tiger_rick]

11 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Yeah Bret vs Piper is fantastic. Piper’s best match?

More than that, I think it's the only good Piper match I've ever seen besides some stuff from the late 70s and early 80s that there was nothing wrong with but never stuck in my memory. That's not a massive criticism. He was in some huge matches that didn't need to be good because they were about the spectacle, he was massively important to wrestling history but I always found his mic work and angles a million percent more exciting than his wrestling. His stuff at the start of 1992 is the exception. The match with the Mountie is a great moment that is everything it needed to be. His run in the 92 Rumble is great fun and one of many reasons that's the best Rumble. And then the build and match with Bret are absolutely perfect.

Some people might be higher on his stuff with Rick Rude and he has some matches with Savage and Flair that are novel but he's just not a very engaging wrestler bell-to-bell - albeit in an era full of them.

[SoloJones]

3 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

More than that, I think it's the only good Piper match I've ever seen besides some stuff from the late 70s and early 80s that there was nothing wrong with but never stuck in my memory. That's not a massive criticism. He was in some huge matches that didn't need to be good because they were about the spectacle, he was massively important to wrestling history but I always found his mic work and angles a million percent more exciting than his wrestling. His stuff at the start of 1992 is the exception. The match with the Mountie is a great moment that is everything it needed to be. His run in the 92 Rumble is great fun and one of many reasons that's the best Rumble. And then the build and match with Bret are absolutely perfect.

Some people might be higher on his stuff with Rick Rude and he has some matches with Savage and Flair that are novel but he's just not a very engaging wrestler bell-to-bell - albeit in an era full of them.

Different things land for different people, but I think Piper is a fantastic wrestler and only really suffers because at least in the UK, his most commonly seen footage was around 90-92 when he's far from in his prime (even though there's gems like the Mania match with Bret), and his even later comeback stuff in WWE from 2003 onwards. Also was a GOAT level promo, which means he gets tarred with the "better talker than wrestler" brush. The dog collar matches with Greg Valentine and Buzz Sawyer, the Jack Brisco match for the Mid Atlantic Title, a few combinations of matches with Bruno Sammartino, the cage with Rick Rude, a non-dog collar match with Valentine in NWA - all great stuff, and I haven't ever really watched any Portland or San Francisco stuff properly but I'd imagine there's stuff worth watching there too.

[BomberPat]

Bret/Piper is my go-to answer for my favourite match of all time, certainly my favourite WWF match. It's the match I've probably knowingly ripped off the most too - I've refereed at least three different matches mimicking that format of respectful competition getting more heated, the more heel-ish wrestling having the opportunity to cheat, and thinking better of it. When the crowd follow you, there's nothing better.

I hate to be a grumpy "it used to be better" type, but you'd struggle to tell that story in WWE today - the wrestlers would be mugging to the camera ten times more, and the wrestler in the Piper spot would be monologuing their inner turmoil, rather than trusting the audience to see what was happening and react organically. On top of that, as @Chili said, modern audiences just want to experience a moment that a heel turn or even the hint of one never gets the right reaction, it gets a big pop because they got to see something happen. The rules matter less than they ever have, too - we've had so much "turnabout is fair play", and so many instances of babyfaces doing things outside the rules even before the heels do, that I don't know how many audiences today would see a babyface grabbing a weapon and even recognise that they're being tempted to break the rules. 

[Lorne Malvo]

19 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

 

I hate to be a grumpy "it used to be better" type, but you'd struggle to tell that story in WWE today - the wrestlers would be mugging to the camera ten times more, and the wrestler in the Piper spot would be monologuing their inner turmoil, rather than trusting the audience to see what was happening and react organically. On top of that, as @Chili said, modern audiences just want to experience a moment that a heel turn or even the hint of one never gets the right reaction, it gets a big pop because they got to see something happen. The rules matter less than they ever have, too - we've had so much "turnabout is fair play", and so many instances of babyfaces doing things outside the rules even before the heels do, that I don't know how many audiences today would see a babyface grabbing a weapon and even recognise that they're being tempted to break the rules. 

The closest thing I can remember to this in modern WWE would be Sami Zayn going to use the NXT belt against Neville and the Full Sail audience practically pleading with him not to because everybody wanted him to win it the right way. And by modern, I mean 12 years ago.

[HarmonicGenerator]

58 minutes ago, Lorne Malvo said:

The closest thing I can remember to this in modern WWE would be Sami Zayn going to use the NXT belt against Neville and the Full Sail audience practically pleading with him not to because everybody wanted him to win it the right way. And by modern, I mean 12 years ago.

You could make a case for Sami Zayn again a bit more recently. His turn on the Bloodline felt more like an audience willing him to finally stand up to them, and not just popping for the moment. Even that was three years ago now, though!

[FLips]

Caught Summerslam 1991 on the vault the other day and The Bushwhackers made me grin from ear to ear. Walking about licking heads, wobbling in the ropes going WOAHHHH, WHEYYYYY. Top tier faces.

[SuperBacon]

46 minutes ago, FLips said:

The Bushwhackers

My Dad's favourite and the only reason he tolerated my wrestling nonsense when I was younger. To this day if the topic ever comes up he always says "they still going, the Bushwhackers?"

My sisters loved them too. They were over like mad on the council estates of Isleworth.

[Chico Torres]

Probably the best HHH match:

There was a recent post about WCW’s mighty tag division in 1996 whereas WWF decided to compete by bringing back the Bushwhackers with a kangaroo mascot (likely our Steve the Brooklyn Brawler in the costume)

 

[Snitsky's back acne]

48 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

My Dad's favourite and the only reason he tolerated my wrestling nonsense when I was younger. To this day if the topic ever comes up he always says "they still going, the Bushwhackers?"

My sisters loved them too. They were over like mad on the council estates of Isleworth.

Yup, they're a favourite of my mate's too. He is along term casual fan and any time we watch old stuff he's like "The Bushwhackers were awesome"

It goes to show what matters to everybody other than us diehard fans. 

[TV Time Remaining]

I always remember my dad loved the Bushies and Sid, he would always crack up at Hawk promos and for some reason called Hunter Hearst Helmsley "Humphrey Humphrey Humphrey"

[garynysmon]

8 hours ago, Chico Torres said:

There was a recent post about WCW’s mighty tag division in 1996 whereas WWF decided to compete by bringing back the Bushwhackers with a kangaroo mascot (likely our Steve the Brooklyn Brawler in the costume)

 

The very worst of WWF / American "Meh, Australia and New Zealand are basically the same thing".

[The British Bushwacker]

That crowd was Bushwhacking to levels of excitement not seen until the Oddities turned up 2 years later!

[tiger_rick]

 

Seen clips from this before but the first time I've watched the whole thing. Features one of my new favourite WWF fibs ever as Todd Pettingill proclaims a million New Yorkers are in attendance, despite there being a couple of thousand and plenty walking by not giving a shit - Mall of America vibes.

[Roy]

18 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

 

Seen clips from this before but the first time I've watched the whole thing. Features one of my new favourite WWF fibs ever as Todd Pettingill proclaims a million New Yorkers are in attendance, despite there being a couple of thousand and plenty walking by not giving a shit - Mall of America vibes.

This was a fun little watch. I think the aesthetic of having an outdoor event like this, particularly in NYC, leads to eyeballs on the product. I remember thinking the same whenever I've seen slightly odd backdrops for shows, whether that be the Beach Blast and Road Wild PPVs from WCW or the Hoosier Dome for WrestleMania VIII, Wembley for SummerSlam 92, etc. 

[tiger_rick]

It did make me wonder why, when they're running Times Square a week out, they didn't run MSG for Mania. Hartford was a dreadful venue. They didn't run MSG much in 1995 but did have a house show there just before with the same attendance as Mania, albeit heavily papered. Maybe MSG saw the card and locked the doors?

On Pettingill bullshit, he's interviewing Luger & Davey at the start - an incredibly coherant Davey Boy promo - and he twice says they're amongst the most popular tag teams of ALL TIME, despite Luger saying they're about to have their first match as a tag team, which wasn't quite true but was from a TV POV - they'd had a couple of matches in January.

Also interesting, they called the team the International Power Alliance which I quite like.