Survivor Series: WarGames

[RedRooster]

25 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

It’s a hilarious swipe because, it is. She was given loads of training before TV and had Bryan Danielson later. But she’s got other things she wants to do and hasn’t put the effort in. It’s what a lot of people said when she jumped, me included, that she wasn’t ready for WWE TV, and they obviously agree. 

That said, because she’s in the PC now, and they have invested in her, hopefully she does put the effort in.

I’m honestly not asking this to be a dick - I have a lot of time for you. This really is a genuine question - do you think you approach your opinions on both WWE and AEW from a completely neutral perspective?

Edited November 26, 2023 by RedRooster

[Infinity Land]

1 hour ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Don’t know that song.

In other ‘Tony’s fumbled bag’s’ news, Triple H took a sideways swipe at AEW in the press conference. Asked about Jade Cargill he admitted they’ve realised she’s ‘limited through not fault of her own’.

 

I'd say that's largely right.

Debuts in the pandemic era where opportunities are limited. Even in training environments.

AEW's already limited schedule for those trying to get reps, was even worse in the beginning of that with taping every other week.

Faults of her own, plenty of holidays over the years. Making sure to cram in months long touring summer vacation (with a launch of a women's baseball team) before signing up for the WWE workload.

[RedRooster]

9 minutes ago, Infinity Land said:

Faults of her own, plenty of holidays over the years. Making sure to cram in months long touring summer vacation (with a launch of a women's baseball team) before signing up for the WWE workload.

I’ve no idea how many holidays constitutes ‘plenty’, but since when has taking a holiday been considered a fault? If she managed to negotiate a deal with Tony Khan that allowed her to take time off to spend with her daughter and family, power to her. Is the suggestion here that she somehow wasn’t trying hard enough to improve because she (allegedly) did?

[BomberPat]

Honestly, I think people seeing Triple H saying that, essentially, Jade isn't as good as they thought she was as an attack on AEW have it backwards. Surely "we scouted her and thought she was brilliant and worth giving the red carpet treatment, until we started working with her" is actually high praise of either her AEW opponents or AEW's booking of her matches, or else it's a damning indictment of WWE's talent scouts to have not realised that.

Still, everyone who was crowing that WWE knew how to present her as more of a star than AEW did because they gave her ten seconds of TV time to step out of cars and shake hands are pretty quiet now.

[d-d-d-dAz]

4 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Honestly, I think people seeing Triple H saying that, essentially, Jade isn't as good as they thought she was as an attack on AEW have it backwards. Surely "we scouted her and thought she was brilliant and worth giving the red carpet treatment, until we started working with her" is actually high praise of either her AEW opponents or AEW's booking of her matches, or else it's a damning indictment of WWE's talent scouts to have not realised that.

Still, everyone who was crowing that WWE knew how to present her as more of a star than AEW did because they gave her ten seconds of TV time to step out of cars and shake hands are pretty quiet now.

To be fair, they did present her as a huge star. Her failure to present a body slam to the hard cam is hardly going to show up in a backstage segment with Charlotte Flair.

Enough of this tribal nonsense. WWE is great, AEW is great. Them both being great has created the environment for all the exciting stuff that’s happened the last few years.

It’s a golden age*.
 

 

 

*I retain the right to revisit this opinion if Jack Perry is the Devil.

Edited November 26, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz

[Devon Malcolm]

10 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Honestly, I think people seeing Triple H saying that, essentially, Jade isn't as good as they thought she was as an attack on AEW have it backwards. Surely "we scouted her and thought she was brilliant and worth giving the red carpet treatment, until we started working with her" is actually high praise of either her AEW opponents or AEW's booking of her matches, or else it's a damning indictment of WWE's talent scouts to have not realised that.

Or maybe what they've done with her so far was the plan all along?  To let people know they've got her, that they intend to present her as a big star, and then to work with her extensively behind the scenes before debuting her?

Maybe AEW's talent are good to have gotten decent matches out of her, but booking her the same way all the time and giving her no room to develop and improve is a damning indictment of AEW's booking and behind-the-scenes work.

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

16 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Honestly, I think people seeing Triple H saying that, essentially, Jade isn't as good as they thought she was as an attack on AEW have it backwards. Surely "we scouted her and thought she was brilliant and worth giving the red carpet treatment, until we started working with her" is actually high praise of either her AEW opponents or AEW's booking of her matches, or else it's a damning indictment of WWE's talent scouts to have not realised that.

Having seen the state of the women's division in AEW and how it's booked then it has to be option 3. 

[RedRooster]

25 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Still, everyone who was crowing that WWE knew how to present her as more of a star than AEW did because they gave her ten seconds of TV time to step out of cars and shake hands are pretty quiet now.

I totally agree with the first part of your post, but I absolutely think their approach made her seem like a huge deal immediately. The fact they have seemingly pulled back on doing anything further in spite of that initial treatment - presumably after realising she needs more seasoning - strikes me as a sensible thing to do; there’s no point putting anyone in a position to fail.

I suspect in a different era this wouldn’t have happened, and she’d have been thrown right out there so that Vince McMahon could guffaw and chortle at her weaknesses, using it as evidence to support his opinion that WWE is the better company. 

Both companies, for the most part, seem to be working to create a supportive environment in which wrestlers can develop. It’s nice to see. 

[Hannibal Scorch]

1 hour ago, RedRooster said:

I’m honestly not asking this to be a dick - I have a lot of time for you. This really is a genuine question - do you think you approach your opinions on both WWE and AEW from a completely neutral perspective?

Does anyone with any opinion? Most people have some bias if nothing else. I don’t like the current WWE product, but I have been watching them over 30 years now, more on than off. I much prefer what AEW are doing. But, I don’t want WWE to fail, and because it isn’t my jam anymore doesn’t mean I’m not glad it is for others. For anyone around my age, or watched since the 90’s, I can’t understand why you would still love it mind, but I certainly don’t begrudge it. 
 

But @BomberPat as is often the case nailed it better than I could. People were quick to point out how Jade was ready, and what a big star she’d been now at the other place. Baring in mind they already turned how down before she went to AEW. This is the equivalent to a premier league club spending a £100m on a striker, doing the big press stuff and then not seeing him play for a whole season because he’s not up to standard. Jade deserved the attention she got, but she wasn’t ready and they look foolish now. Because when she is ready, they will have to remind people who she is again.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Hannibal Scorch

[d-d-d-dAz]

I’m not sure they look… foolish? Amongst all the mainstream media coverage they’re getting today, and amidst all the financial records they’ve broken, I think you’ll struggle to find a ‘aren’t WWE foolish’ take from most people. At most, it just doesn’t matter.

Anyway, shouldn’t have brought it up. I miss when we were talking about Punk’s shoes.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz

[Devon Malcolm]

10 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

I miss when we were talking about Punk’s shoes.

Upon further inspection, I think they might not have been Gazelles but Superstars. He knows what he's doing.

[DavidB6937]

39 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Jade deserved the attention she got, but she wasn’t ready and they look foolish now. Because when she is ready, they will have to remind people who she is again.

They were always going to have to introduce her in some way because I bet half the WWE audience genuinely don't know who she is anyway.

She got the big superstar intro. People know she's a big deal now. She's out there as someone who has been signed and could appear at any time. The surprise element will be even better. And no one will look foolish for it.

[Snitsky's back acne]

Saw it on Twitter.
Had to. Sorry. 

[LaGoosh]

2 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

Maybe AEW's talent are good to have gotten decent matches out of her, but booking her the same way all the time and giving her no room to develop and improve is a damning indictment of AEW's booking and behind-the-scenes work.

They booked her to hide her limitations to make her look like an absolute star and she definitely did develop and improve over time. 

Fundamentally though, AEW was never set up in a way to grow new talents from complete scratch because they don't have a training school and they don't have house show loops. I don't see what much else they could have realistically done for Jade.

She hit her ceiling with what was possible in AEW, they got all they possibly could out of her and her leaving didn't damage the company. Now she's in in a place that is better suited for her and has the ability to develop her further. Feels like an overall win for the health of the current wrestling business rather than a damning indictment of anyone.

Edited November 26, 2023 by LaGoosh

[Devon Malcolm]

1 minute ago, LaGoosh said:

Fundamentally though, AEW was never set up in a way to grow new talents from complete scratch because they don't have a training school and they don't have house show loops.

Do they have this now? It struck me with AEW that they essentially used independents as their training schools but I guess with someone like Cargill that wouldn't work too well. But as she was a rare example of that kind of talent in AEW, maybe they didn't / don't need one?