CavemanLynn Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 IMO, a decent summary from Vox, covering 75 years of conflict and political movement in 15 minutes: Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Coconut Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Is this the first televised genocide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 They've made sure it's barely televised but yeah I'd say so. There's barely any way for news to get out now everything from water to electricity has been shut down and there's multiple stories of journalists and their families being directly targeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Nah come on now. The IDF DID warn the residents of Gaza to move south. On an announcement on TV, when they have no way of seeing it due to Israel bombing the shit out of their comms infrastructure, so there is a complete media blackout. But if they did get to watch it, helpfully it was delivered in English to an Arabic speaking population. They're doing all they can to warn them! That ruddy, bloody helpful IDF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Almost as helpful as the Hamas fighters stopping people heading south by shooting at them. A plague on both houses, as per usual. Â Hamas want as large a civilian death toll as possible. Safe and sound in Qatar of course, bastard. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 36 minutes ago, Loki said: Almost as helpful as the Hamas fighters stopping people heading south by shooting at them. I am pro Palestine, not pro Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, SuperBacon said: I am pro Palestine, not pro Hamas. Me too.  Hence my highlighting their appalling actions as well as Israel’s.  I would hope it’s safe to assume everyone is not pro Hamas?  Unless anyone wants to admit to being pro beheading of babies.  But personally I don’t see being pro Palestinian as meaning being anti Israel.  Seeing this as a zero sum game is simplistic.  Both populations and both countries have the right to live peacefully if only their respective political leaderships could deliver that.  It may be that the US have persuaded Netanyahu not to commit to a full scale invasion of Gaza but restrict themselves to limited incursions on the ground.  I hope so but what the end result of that is politically I have no idea.  We could end up back at square one with Hamas in control of Gaza and thousands of lives lost. Edited October 28, 2023 by Loki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 23 minutes ago, Loki said: Unless anyone wants to admit to being pro beheading of babies. Let's not tempt fate and remember where we are. 24 minutes ago, Loki said: But personally I don’t see being pro Palestinian as meaning being anti Israel.  Think there is a simple distinction there. I'm not anti "the Israeli people" (apart from those that want to destroy Palestine and the Palestinian people), but I am anti "the Israeli government" and cannot see how anyone can "both sides" that particular point, but I accept everyone is different. Also, and unrelated, someone asked me yesterday when we were discussing a ceasefire, "Well what's your solution?" and the simple answer is, I said I don't have one. I'm not a bloody international relations expert, that's not my background, and that's not my area of specialty that I work in and have dedicated years of my life to. Its OK to care and not know what the best solution is! I feel I'm unqualified to offer an effective solution. I have an opinion of course on what I would like to happen, but there are way too many people that are all of a sudden experts in the Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BigJag Posted October 30, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) What's the logic behind suppressing support for Palestine? We've had massive demonstrations all over the country in support of Palestine. These were barely covered in national media. There have been incidents at Liverpool FC and now Man Utd where supporters were removed from the ground or had their Palestine sweatshirt and flag removed/confiscated. That's in stark contrast to Celtic FC. Is that due to the strong links that Celtic have with Ireland? There have also been incidents of people being reprimanded by their employer because they showed support for Palestine. We had, predominantly Western, high ranking politicians parroting "Israel has a right to defend itself." Brazenly ignoring how ridiculous that made them look. Is Israeli state propaganda and it's position in the Middle East really this important to people with decision making influence? Edited October 30, 2023 by BigJag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted October 30, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 30, 2023 On 10/28/2023 at 4:05 PM, King Coconut said: Is this the first televised genocide? Off topic but how widely reported were the events in Bosnia at the time? I remember the conflicts being on the news a lot but can't really remember how well known during it that side was, or how it was reported here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 42 minutes ago, BigJag said: What's the logic behind suppressing support for Palestine? We've had massive demonstrations all over the country in support of Palestine. These were barely covered in national media. There have been incidents at Liverpool FC and now Man Utd where supporters were removed from the ground or had their Palestine sweatshirt and flag removed/confiscated. That's in stark contrast to Celtic FC. Is that due to the strong links that Celtic have with Ireland? There have also been incidents of people being reprimanded by their employer because they showed support for Palestine. We had, predominantly Western, high ranking politicians parroting "Israel has a right to defend itself." Brazenly ignoring how ridiculous that made them look. Is Israeli state propaganda and it's position in the Middle East really this important to people with decision making influence? I think it's because any mass demonstrations of support for Palestine will also be accompanied by demonstrations of anti-semitism and so much of our national identity has been wrapped up in "we spanked Hitler and saved the Jews" even though Britain has its own long history with anti-semitism. Britain doesn't genuinely give a toss about Israel. It never has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 30, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 30, 2023 16 minutes ago, Vamp said: Britain doesn't genuinely give a toss about Israel. It never has. From what I've seen, there's not much evidence that most right-wing gentiles give a fuck about Jews, either - it's just the most convenient form of racism to weaponise as a stick to beat the left with. Any other form of racism, particularly that against people of colour, is a vote-winner for such types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, BigJag said: That's in stark contrast to Celtic FC. Not really. Celtic issued a statement to fans asking them not to display Palestinian flags but given the number, they couldn’t throw them all out.  Personally I think it was to mitigate the inevitable fine from UEFA, they can say “Well, we did ask!” And get the fine reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 30, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Not really. Celtic issued a statement to fans asking them not to display Palestinian flags but given the number, they couldn’t throw them all out.  Personally I think it was to mitigate the inevitable fine from UEFA, they can say “Well, we did ask!” And get the fine reduced. Putting the "'Ra" in "Ramallah" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Carbomb said: Putting the "'Ra" in "Ramallah" Al Paeda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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