News/Current Affairs thread

[Chest Rockwell]

23 minutes ago, Loki said:

A hate-filled phrase whichever way you look at it.

Except when you look at it in the way that the video you seem to have accidentally included a link to does, that provides an explanation as to why it isn't antisemitic..? 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Chest Rockwell

[Keith Houchen]

24 minutes ago, Loki said:

ALSO been used by far-right Zionist groups to call for the eradication of the Palestinian people.

Including Likud, Netenyahus ruling party. It’s one of the very first lines of their constitution. 
 

EDIT - @Chest Rockwell, Rivkah is part of Novara, therefore is the “Wrong kind of Jew”

Edited November 6, 2023 by Keith Houchen

[Loki]

It's absolutely antisemitic, it refers to the Hamas charter intention of cleansing the land from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean of Jewish people.  It has also been used the other way by Zionists to refer to the cleansing of the same land of Palestinians.

Of course there will always be people who claim it's not racist, but they're kidding themselves.

[Loki]

5 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Including Likud, Netenyahus ruling party. It’s one of the very first lines of their constitution. 

Exactly, and Hamas incorporated it into their charter - 'the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea.'  And it's become a rallying cry at Hamas events.

It's a phrase that neatly encapsulates the intransigency of both sides of the political divide in the area, an advocation of ethnic cleansing rather than a mutual recognition of the right to statehood.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Loki

[Keith Houchen]

2 minutes ago, Loki said:

, it refers to the Hamas charter intention of cleansing the land from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean of Jewish people

The phrase has been around for decades before Hamas were formed. If anything, they stole it!

[Loki]

11 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

The phrase has been around for decades before Hamas were formed. If anything, they stole it!

I know.  Hence me saying it's been used by both Hamas and Zionist extremists.

I hope we can agree that wherever it originated, it's a hateful phrase loaded with racist and violent intent, and shouldn't be on the masthead of any UK publication, or chanted on the tube or at protests.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Loki

[Keith Houchen]

2 minutes ago, Loki said:

I know.  Hence me saying it's been used by both Hamas and Zionist extremists.

You said it refers to the Hamas charter. I’m just saying it predates that charter by over 20 years. I’m sure it is used as a rallying cry at Hamas events but I’ve never attended one. I don’t think there is any of those events in this country what with them being a proscribed group and all. 
 

Personally, I don’t and wouldn’t use the phrase because as you say, it’s a totally loaded slogan. Such as “Make America Great Again”, which is also a phrase that predates who used it. 
 

Regarding the publication, it’s from SWP who are scumbags. They cover up rapes by their members amongst other things. 

[Loki]

4 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

You said it refers to the Hamas charter.

When it is chanted at pro-Palestine rallies, it's not likely that they're quoting the Likud's foundational charter, is it?  They're amplifying the Hamas war cry, although I'd wager some people in that video are unaware of that.  As you say, just because they phrase may have predated Hamas, it doesn't mean it can't become associated with them, as "MAGA" has become with Trump.

That's why these protests are such clusterfucks - you get White Surrey Mums 4 Palestine marching shoulder to shoulder with Hamas-adjacent preachers calling for Jihad.  

[Carbomb]

The SW is not exactly a great example when trying to counter the accusation that "powerful elements of the government and the media" are gaslighting the Palestinian cause. It's a fringe newspaper that barely reaches anyone. They're hardly an opposing voice to the combined weight and coverage of The Times, The Telegraph, The Mail, The Sun, The Express, etc.

EDIT: To be clear, I also can't stand the SWP - as Keith said, they cover up rapes, and they usually have their heads up their arses. No surprise they would use questionable language on their headers without checking things out. There are plenty of slogans they could have used.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Carbomb

[Keith Houchen]

11 minutes ago, Loki said:

When it is chanted at pro-Palestine rallies

Disagree. It’s not just Hamas who say it because it’s been a call for freedom and has been used long before Hamas. Haven’t Hamas only included it in their charter from 2017?  I mean, if people want to associate a phrase that’s been around since the 60s with a group that adopted it 50 odd years later, so be it, but it does tie into the belief that pro Palestinian equals pro Hamas. It has always been co-opted by antisemites to some degree but I don’t think it’s accurate to frame it as a “Hamas slogan”
 

Didn’t Arafat remove it from the PLO constitution once or was that something else?

[Dead Mike]

Here we go....'Your lot punching OAPs selling poppies'.

Some still question why Labour are reluctant to align themselves with this?

Depressingly predictable 

 

 

 

[Chest Rockwell]

10 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

EDIT - @Chest Rockwell, Rivkah is part of Novara, therefore is the “Wrong kind of Jew”

A bit of a tangent (and not saying you are doing it here), but something I'm getting fed up of is use of someone's jewishness as a qualification. Someone's ethnicity or religion doesn't inherently make them more knowledgeable or qualified to comment. 

 

Like everyone has to find themselves a Jewish mouthpiece that agrees with them to have credibility. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Chest Rockwell

[Steve Justice]

27 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

A bit of a tangent (and not saying you are doing it here), but something I'm getting fed up of is use of someone's jewishness as a qualification. Someone's ethnicity or religion doesn't inherently make them more knowledgeable or qualified to comment. 

I'm the most Al-Qaeda one 'ere. 

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, Chest Rockwell said:

A bit of a tangent (and not saying you are doing it here), but something I'm getting fed up of is use of someone's jewishness as a qualification. Someone's ethnicity or religion doesn't inherently make them more knowledgeable or qualified to comment. 

And also making out one group are a collective voice who speak as one with no dissenters. 

[BigJag]

Rashida Talib, a member of Congress in the US,has been censured. Her crime seems to have been supporting calls for a ceasefire. I'm guessing Congress didn't like being told off.