AEW Dynamite Thread 2023

[Nick James]

https://cultaholic.com/posts/adam-cole-reveals-he-used-to-cry-for-no-reason-had-memory-issues-following-consecutive-concussions 

Just read this from Adam Cole and can honestly say I cannot be more pleased for him that hes back. He seems like one of the nicest guys in wrestling and whilst not to everyones taste, I'm just glad hes back working in some capacity. Sounds scary what he went through after the concussions and should really go a long way to making people think about some of the stupid bumps that are being taken (Looking at you, Darby). 

[d-d-d-dAz]

I’m not sure your world champion should be doing this stuff on social media, and it’s made worst by turning the thread into a promo for the show. 

[Keith Houchen]

That doesn’t look good for Corbyn. 

[Accident Prone]

I'm late to the discussion on the previous page about AEW not offering enough story last week but I have to kickback at the idea that last week's Dynamite was all about the wrestling and not enough about those damned stories. Every match on the last weeks show was steeped in build, some of it weeks and months long. This wasn't wrestling for the sheer sake of wrestling, and that hasn't been the case for a while now on AEW Dynamite. I mean, let's break down the card:

Jon Moxley vs. Adam Page

The rubber match in this trilogy of hard-hitting barnburners. This story started all the way back in October, and has been simmering and building ever since. Page and Mox are two ass kickers with diametrically opposed philosophies around respect and sportsmanship. The story feels like it could happen in real life, the characters feel real and are reacting in a believable way. It's all lovely.

Truth Magnum & Turbo Floyd vs. The Acclaimed

WWE-style gobbledegook for people who like WWE-style gobbledegook. This story began a few weeks back with the Gunns using psychological warfare against their own father, eventually succeeding by gaining a tag title shot after the Acclaimed won an old-school tag team showcase against a couple of hickory-dickory jobbers. Are we suddenly forgetting this is all playing off a 2022 feud that reached a climax last summer?

Brian Cage (w/Prince Nana) vs. Konosuke Takeshita

Both men have suffered losses to Bryan Danielson in his quest to win the strap, but KT earned DB's respect and now sides with him. This match stems from the previous episode where Konosuke halted an attack from Cage and MJF on Danielson, and not only gained his first AEW Dynamite win here but also gained a match against the world champion on the next episode.

Bryan Danielson vs. Timothy Thatcher

Bryan Danielson's 4th challenge in MJF's championship gauntlet of hired mercenaries. Cage and MJF destroyed his arm the previous week, and MJF then queued up submission and AHHRM-BAHHR-specialist Timothy Thatcher to de-thatch the arm further from it's sockets and ligaments. This lead to Bryan suffering more heavy losses to his arm, and can you guess what MJF's main submission finisher is? IT'S THE SALT OF THE EARTH! PRO WRESTLING, BABY!

Jade Cargill (w/Leila Grey) vs. Red Velvet

This one was steeped in history, believe it or not. Cargill defeated Velvet in the quarter-finals of the 2021 TBS Championship tournament. By April 2022, Velvet was in a stable with Jade, assisting her in tags and title matches in order to keep the TBS championship around Jade's waist. Now, en-route to going 50-0, Jade had to get through someone who knew her every weakness.

Darby Allin vs. Samoa Joe

Match three in another trilogy of hard-hitting feuds. (Fucking great how AEW book-ended the show like that, isn't it?), only this time it's for a the secondary singles strap. This one also has it's roots in a two month's long build, with Darby defeating Joe on his second attempt and destroying himself in every match thereafter in order to keep his winning ways alive. What's more pro wrestling than a feud ending in a vicious gimmick match for a prestigious title?

The stories are there, plain as day. They're layered and present themselves as classic stories retold for modern audiences. They're just not being presented in slow, mundane twenty minute promos (unless you're Chris Jericho), with a zillion video packages and a bazillion clumsy, awkward backstage segments (unless you're in the AEW women's division). You don't have generic heels doing the "YOOOOOUUUU people" schtick, meandering and unnatural scripted promos, and you don't have babyfaces constantly being made to look like chumps.

For the most part, AEW doesn't present their storytelling in the same manner that WWE has for twenty years, and that's a good thing. Like any pro wrestling company, they hit some clangers here and there, but for the most part it's weekly TV pro wrestling done right. There's plenty of stories being told and plenty to sink your teeth into. It's definitely not the mainstream PWG that some people paint it as (although I would love that, to be fair).

[Supremo]

I’m absolutely convinced at this point that Moxley and Hangman took all that, “but where’s the story,” bullshit to heart, so have purposely told a fucking fantastic story, mostly with the matches themselves, just to humiliate whoppers like Lance Storm.

The first match ends when Moxley smashes Page’s brain to bits and shows no mercy or remorse. Mox walks away thinking he’s Billy Big Bollocks and that  Page is made of glass.

The second match ends when Hangman proves he’s just as dangerous and manages to knock Moxley’s block off. Eat shit, Mox. You’re not the only one with a clothesline that can take people out. He’s left humiliated, doing a double takedown on the ref. Hangman feels bad, but a Cowboy’s gotta do what a Cowboy’s gotta do.

And then in the third match, although clearly more remorseful than Mox has ever been, Hangman still comes into the fight expecting them to play Conkers with their heads one more time. Only this time, Moxley borderline bottles it, now knowing how tough Page is, so practically steals a win with a pro-wrestling manoeuvre. Hangman, having assumed there was a gentleman’s agreement to just knock shite out of each other again, is left furious and embarrassed. Meanwhile, depending on how you read it, Moxley comes away looking either really clever or a bit cowardly and heelish for having to stoop so low as so to use a small package reversal, considering he’s supposed to be the brawler of all brawlers. Blackpool Shithouse.

So now we’re out of options. It’s going to have to be a Texas Death Match to settle it. Or maybe a Bare Knuckle Fight refereed by Ronnie Pickering.

In other news, reports come out that Dangausen is the biggest merchandise seller? Young lad getting over, eh?

Chris Jericho:

Edited February 6, 2023 by Supremo

[Infinity Land]

28 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

I'm late to the discussion on the previous page about AEW not offering enough story last week but I have to kickback at the idea that last week's Dynamite was all about the wrestling and not enough about those damned stories.

 

Some of which were weak. Which is where a lot of the complaints seem to originate. It's not so much stories as histories.

Red Velvet returned from a long term injury. Not to confront Jade and the mistreatment of the Baddies, but appearing at the concert confrontation with Bow Wow. So random at the time people were getting Red Velvet and Kiera Hogan confused. Kiera was then dropped from the Baddies. It became about Kiera for a little while. Then Red Velvet had enough and walked out on Jade. I don't really remember any live/in ring promos to build the match. Any backstage pre-tapes blurring into any Road To.../Control Center rundowns.

Joe loses the title. Didn't he just disappear from TV as Darby racked up the title defenses. The King Of Television wasn't exactly chasing after his crown. Then makes a brief video return on the previous Dynamite. That went straight into the rematch the following week.

Bryan Danielson wrestles another guy that's not MJF. Like you say this was the 4th 💤 challenge. This time it's someone the vast majority of people have never seen. At least MJF and Takeshita were involved to give it some interest. There's the 5th challenge this week, still time for 6th, 7th and 8th. It's a real rollercoaster of emotions. I wonder if Danielson will make the PPV? 

 

[Tim Healys Chutney Spoon]

@Supremo who's Ronnie Pickering?

[Keith Houchen]

6 minutes ago, Big'Olympic_Hero'Pete said:

@Supremo who's Ronnie Pickering?

 

Spoiler

RONNIE PICKERING

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Keith Houchen

[Hannibal Scorch]

46 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

RONNIE PICKERING

 

Ronnie Pickerhauser

 

[RedRooster]

11 hours ago, Accident Prone said:

The stories are there, plain as day. They're layered and present themselves as classic stories retold for modern audiences. They're just not being presented in slow, mundane twenty minute promos (unless you're Chris Jericho), with a zillion video packages and a bazillion clumsy, awkward backstage segments (unless you're in the AEW women's division). You don't have generic heels doing the "YOOOOOUUUU people" schtick, meandering and unnatural scripted promos, and you don't have babyfaces constantly being made to look like chumps.

Outside of Hangman/Moxley, I think this is an incredibly generous interpretation of AEW's storytelling over the past few weeks. You talk about "slow, mundane twenty minute promos", but realistically, how many memorable AEW or WWE stories or angles have been told in the format that we've seen over the last few weeks? It's not "layered" storytelling, it's lazy pre-recorded promos that feel repetitious, and you forget the moment they finish. 

AEW's best and most memorable storylines have all involved "twenty minute promos" - MJF/Punk, Cody/MJF, Cody/Jericho, the Punk/Moxley confrontation, The Acclaimed's National Scissoring Day, Hangman/Omega (particularly the goosebump-inducing "that's cowboy shit!") promo, Danielson/Moxley (and Danielson's proposal that they work together), Jericho/MJF (the dinner debonairre - love it or loathe it - was one of the most innovative and interesting segments AEW ever did) and Dax Harwood's "fight like an eight-year-old-girl" promo; for example. 

Heck, look at the end-of-year UKFF awards - the winning segments and angles have all had some level of time devoted to them. 

And "classic stories retold for modern audiences"? Over the last few weeks we've had Ricky Starks mock Jake Hager's lisp, Max Caster makes jokes about men having sex and Action Andretti suggesting that Sammy Guevarra can't "control his woman". There's nothing classic, clever or layered about it - it's lowest common denominator stuff. 

We all know AEW can tell brilliant storylines, and I've argued before that when it comes to "layered" storytelling, no one does it better than Hangman Page - he's such an intelligent storyteller. However, there are far too many episodes that feel like an adrenaline shot of matches, for an owner who either lacks patience, or has a short attention span. This was one of them. 

[BomberPat]

12 hours ago, Accident Prone said:

I'm late to the discussion on the previous page about AEW not offering enough story last week but I have to kickback at the idea that last week's Dynamite was all about the wrestling and not enough about those damned stories.

I think what's at the root of that criticism is, at its extreme, a Tweet I saw the other day where someone claimed that "wrestling matches aren't the endgame, stories are", which is an insane view to have of a wrestling show - matches are always the endgame, unless you've been schooled on 20+ years of WWE were that largely hasn't been the case.

It's much easier to understand the "no stories" criticism when you realise that to the majority of fans who have only ever been educated on how wrestling works by the WWE of recent years, "stories" and "matches" are entirely mutually exclusive. In the vast majority of WWE matches, there is no "story" outside of, if you're lucky, the final minute or so. Most don't even get that. Because "wins and losses don't matter", the finish and the result aren't even that important half of the time, because you can lose a match on Sunday and be handed a title shot on Monday with no justification. WWE's heels don't cheat, their matches don't generate heat outside of a select few, and that's all by design, from the top down. In WWE, "stories" are the bits between the matches - the promos, the amateur dramatics backstage, the run-ins and distractions in the last thirty seconds of a match, and the post-match staredowns and beatdowns. You can skip all but the finish of almost every WWE match and not miss a single beat of the story being told.

In AEW, when it gets it right, yes, there are some great promo segments and great angles, but the majority of the storytelling still takes place within the matches themselves. Many of the great promos mentioned above were purpose-built to make the fans desperate to see something happen in the eventual match - Hangman to get the killer instinct he's been missing, Punk to kick the shit out of MJF, or FTR to "fight like an eight year old girl" and win the match. They are promos designed to add stakes or to add expectations to the matches, the actual story is in the matches themselves. Not every time, but when it counts.

[garynysmon]

(Sorry, bit of a badly articulated thought explosion coming up!)

As someone who doesn't religiously watch either, following the peaks and troughs of both WWE and AEW over recent years has been quite interesting.

But while I think AEW will be fine and is here to stay, it does feel a bit like the company is hitting its head against its natural glass celling now without much room for manoeuvre. 

They've done the big CM Punk return and brought in Sting etc, they're already in a good timeslot on a top US channel and touring arenas. What's left to do?

What's really sparked that is how surprised I've been by the reaction of a string of influential figures to WWE's (supposed) recent upturn in creative.

I'd always thought that the wrestling world was crying out for a viable competitor, and early doors the enthusiasm was there. But does it feel to anyone else that the early momentum has ground to a halt and has descended into an online tribal quagmire?

Even the slightest hint of an improvement in WWE's fortunes gets everyone all excited, despite offering a copious amount of shite over the best part of 20 years. 

No one else has ever, and ever will, be given that amount of leeway. But the online fanbase as a whole, despite often claiming to just want a good show to watch, all too often and in their heart of hearts, just want the WWE to be good.

During the pandemic, when Dynamite was destroying NXT, it felt that competing with Raw's numbers was the next step. 

But now that feels further away than ever withWWE being, to a large degree, the only game in town for 20+ years having had a longer term effect than previously thought?

Edited February 7, 2023 by garynysmon

[BomberPat]

Even before WWE was the only game in town, any other company would always have that uphill battle, because WWE have an insane level of brand recognition. Even if you've never watched it, you know that WWE or WWF is synonymous with wrestling, and every other company is going to have to fight against that. You have to work against habit viewers who watch RAW every week because they've always watched wrestling on a Monday night, but who don't really seek out anything more than that. Beyond that, you have to work twice as hard to build a brand that people will remember - it's like bringing out a new fizzy Cola, knowing that everyone is still going to call it "Coke". 

There are stories from when WCW was at its peak, beating WWF in the ratings, and Sting was getting booked for events where he would arrive and see that he was billed as "WWF Wrestler". Eric Bischoff tells stories of commentators on other sports broadcasts on Turner networks saying that a particularly dramatic moment or a fight was like "something out of the WWF", even though they belonged to the same media conglomerate as WCW.

AEW have a huge uphill battle fighting against that, but they already seem to have a better handle on things than WCW - they're better at brand synergy, better at talking to and securing coverage in respectable media outlets, and just generally in quietly building brand recognition in very corporate and media-savvy ways. That counts for a lot more than whatever ex-WWE signing they might be able to bring in next. 

At the moment, it does feel like there might be a natural ceiling to their growth, but we've yet to see them run shows outside North America, and there's plenty of scope for growth in their international TV coverage. It might not be as flashy and exciting as CM Punk showing up, but it's all work that moves them in the right direction.

 

I also don't think there's anything particularly wrong with fans wanting WWE to do well - to be a competitor to WWE is already to be a niche within a niche, and while I'm not sure what percentage of AEW's audience are also WWE viewers, I'm assuming it's pretty high, and there's always going to be people who watch WWE because on some level they're the only company that presents wrestling the way they're used to. I often use an analogy to Doctor Who - it's a show I can watch episode after episode of and think, "fucking hell, this is atrocious. Why do I keep watching this shit?", but then right before I'm ready to give it all up and stop watching, they pull out an episode, or even just one moment, that reminds me how good it can get, and watching WWE is a very similar experience; if  you've grown up on it and always watched it, and you're disappointed by how bad it's got, a reminder that they can still sometimes do something special is always going to have an appeal that a promotion that doesn't have decades of your investment attached to it couldn't possibly match.

It's also no bad thing from a purely cynical perspective to want WWE to do well, because generally when they do well, all of wrestling does well. When their TV is good and popular, more people are watching wrestling, so more people have an appetite for it, so more people are likely to tune into other wrestling shows, or to buy tickets to an indie show near them. It doesn't feel that way when so much of WWE/AEW discourse is insane us vs. them tribalism, but that's the truth of it. It's like in music - Blur and Oasis might have been the biggest names in Britpop, but them being in the headlines constantly helped uplift the entire genre/movement, because when there's appetite for something, people will want to buy every version of that thing, from the top right on down, from Blur to Menswear. 

 

There's also the possibility that WWE sells up this year. Who knows what impact that will have on AEW, and audience habits in general. 

[LaGoosh]

1 hour ago, garynysmon said:

What's left to do?

I don't think there's any huge leaps, just put on good stories with good matches and characters to slowly but steadily build the audience and company.

In response to the great posts about stories above, I think AEW currently does have stories...they're just fairly dull, uneventful and unimaginative right now. 

One of the golden rules of storytelling is "show don't tell". I'm not sure that rule really applies to wrestling. There's definitely space for subtlety in wrestling but generally I think you actually need a healthy balance somewhere between show and tell for a good wrestling story to land properly. WWE is often guilty of telling you the story too much like they think you're an idiot then hammering it home until you hate it. AEW is occasionally guilty of being too subtle with their storytelling or not getting across what they're going for completely. It's a difficult balance I think to get right. The Sami/Bloodline story being the most recent example of the perfect show/tell balance. At the moment AEWs stories are either a bit rubbish or in the case of Mox/Hangman not quite as dramatic as they should be.

Edited February 7, 2023 by LaGoosh

[Infinity Land]

What's left for AEW to do is more of the same. I know that might seem rather dull but it's like asking how does La Liga or Bundesliga compete against the Premier League from a business standpoint. 

TNA built itself up as a viable option then imploded on itself. Aew has to avoid the same fate. 

They're still hitting new markets domestically and barely touched international (Canada so far and still to be confirmed UK date). Could probably expand PPVs by 2-4. Access on a proper streaming service. Not a fan of the idea of a standalone network. 

The main thing they've done is create an identity of their own. It's not like when WCW or TNA were being called WWE/WWF lite.