AEW All Out 2021 - September 5th

[The King of Old School]

6 minutes ago, Factotum said:

I know people keep saying about 'not too many WWE guys' but the way they use guys who were there have been absolutely perfect. The total opposite of TNA syndrome

No doubt we're gonna get Punk/Danielson V The Young Bucks at some point and I cannot fucking wait.

Would be a belting match, hopefully at the next PPV although might be a bit long to hold off.

Some potential cracking matches over the next few months though. Wonder if we'll see another blood and guts event soon now that we have full crowds back?

Omega, Cole, Bucks & Good Brothers vs Danielson, Punk, Jungle Express, Christian and a mystery partner (who ends up being Hangman). What a match that would be.

[Guest]

Re the wwe guys chat, of the ones I seen when watching wwe 

Miro is better than when I watched him. His selling of the neck across his opponents has been Lesnar like in looking truly rocked 

moxley solo is better than his solo wwe run.

Jericho it’s time to move on. There are better guys for those slots now

christian and punk both fall under being away so long they don’t feel like just off of wwe guys. Neither looks any worse for time away, and seem motivated than just seeing it as a paycheque. 
 

Add onto that they are still featuring their home grown guys. Jungle boy has talked of Tony pushing him to talk more and being coached. He’s out there for the go home speeches for a reason, they see him as that guy in the future. It’s Darby, with sting, not Darby fawning over sting and being his back up. 
 

it might not last. Tony Khan talking about being up 2 days straight juggling all his jobs might impact what we see. Didn’t hurt Vince much in his younger years running that way. But if it does fall down, what a cracking two and a half years of mainstream wrestling we have had, and looks like us continuing. I never expected this 

[Jazzy G]

57 minutes ago, JohnKringler said:

Its really nowt like late 90's WCW. Even if it was, give me that over the tripe WWE is putting out every Monday.

You must have been watching different WCW than I was in the late 90s.

I didn't say it was a bad thing, but it could end up being a little detrimental to their product if the guys they've spent two years building up and getting over are suddenly having to play with the ex WWE guys. Hopefully it doesn't as I can't imagine they were offered creative control and guaranteed downsides. Like I said it'll be interesting going forward. 

[Factotum]

16 minutes ago, The King of Old School said:

Would be a belting match, hopefully at the next PPV although might be a bit long to hold off.

The New York show might be a good time for the 4 man with Page's return. Then build to the YB/Punk/Danielson tag and have your Hangman / Omega Main event at the PPV.

Leaves it then open for Omega/Bryan to start building towards.

[BomberPat]

26 minutes ago, Factotum said:

I know people keep saying about 'not too many WWE guys' but the way they use guys who were there have been absolutely perfect. The total opposite of TNA syndrome

The difference between "ex-WWE guys" in AEW compared to TNA is that they don't feel like cast-offs in AEW - CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Jon Moxley, Adam Cole, Andrade, PAC, even Paul Wight, they're all people who felt like they could have been WWE lifers but chose to come to AEW, and look like they're having the time of their lives being there. They're not TNA hiring everyone WWE releases, and the guys who show up aren't Rikishi showing up in TNA not even knowing the name of his opponent, they all want to be there.
And anyone claiming that they're over-using ex-WWE names isn't paying attention - there's a reason Darby Allin got a competitive match with CM Punk, there's a reason Jungle Boy was standing tall with Danielson and Christian at the end of the show; every "big name" they bring in has been used, one way or another, to elevate a younger, "homegrown" talent. There's a level of futureproofing that TNA or WCW never had, and WWE hasn't had in decades. 

It's also pretty much unavoidable to have "ex-WWE names" in a wrestling promotion when WWE spent the last twenty years as the only game in town, and most of the last decade signing up everyone who had ever laced a pair of boots.

But even then, looking on AEW's roster on their website, if I can get all stats about it, they have 109 people on their roster - and I'm including active managers in that, so Arn, Tully, Taz, Vickie Guerrero, and also including Paul Wight, Chavo Jr and Mark Henry, as they have win/loss records listed, so could conceivably wrestle at some point. Of that, 33 are "ex-WWE", if we ignore that guys like Luchasaurus, Kenny Omega and Brian Cage were on developmental deals way back when, or that people like Britt Baker did the Mae Young Classic. So already we're talking about less than a third of the roster being "ex-WWE".

Of that third, that's including people like Sting, Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard, who most people wouldn't instantly think of as "WWE guys". Arguably even Matt Hardy, Chris Jericho, Dustin Rhodes, or Christian Cage would fall into a more recent subset of that, where they're just seen as "wrestling veterans" above and beyond being WWE guys first and foremost. It also includes the likes of Matt Sydal, Serena Deeb, Lance Archer, Trent, Frankie Kazarian and Colt Cabana, who were in WWE so long ago and/or so insignificantly that no one would ever think of them as "ex-WWE". It also includes 2.0, who barely made TV, and are already more of a big deal in AEW than they ever were in WWE.

It also includes the likes of CM Punk , Jon Moxley and Cody Rhodes, who have defined themselves so much by being out of WWE that to refer to them as "ex-WWE talent" first and foremost would be pretty disingenuous, and people like Miro who have made concerted efforts to reinvent themselves in AEW to the point that I don't really look at him and think "oh, it's Rusev off of WWE any more".

 

On top of that, not one match at All Out was all "ex-WWE talent", and the tag title and women's title matches had no ex-WWE talent at all (again, overlooking Britt in the MYC). I thought I'd look back to Double Or Nothing, and on that show the only match featuring all "ex-WWE" talent was Miro vs. Lance Archer, and I don't think anyone would consider Lance Archer's selling point to be that he had a cup of coffee in WWE that nobody remembers. There were two matches on that card (Hangman Page vs. Brian Cage, Britt Baker vs. Hikaru Shida) that featured no ex-WWE talent at all, and one where the only ex-WWE name is Sting who, again, no one thinks of as a "WWE guy".

I also looked at the main events of every episode of Dynamite and Rampage between Double or Nothing and All Out. Only two featured all ex-WWE talent - Jon Moxley vs. Lance Archer for the IWGP US Title, and Cody Rhodes vs. Malakai Black. In that same period (18 shows), there were 7 episodes of either Dynamite or Rampage where no one in the main event was an ex-WWE name.

[Keith Houchen]

Yeah I think there’s a distinction between “Ex WWE” and “Used to be WWE” based on how they are presented. 
 

I know this doesn’t work but it’s kind of like films and movies. WWE is like Marvel, the most popular, the most profitable and the most merchandised and incredibly formulaic. AEW is like an independent production company who let actors be actors and have the scripts and roles that blockbusters don’t. Just because you were in a Marvel film doesn’t mean you only play that role. 
 

It’s actors and movie stars innit. Bret was an actor but HBK was a movie star. And of course, HBK was better because he was an entertainer. 

[BomberPat]

3 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Yeah I think there’s a distinction between “Ex WWE” and “Used to be WWE” based on how they are presented. 

Remember when Matt Cardona showed up in AEW for a couple of weeks? He was just being Zack Ryder in all but name, and he stuck out like a sore thumb. And that's probably why he didn't stick around. 

[Tim Healys Chutney Spoon]

Someone posted this on another forum I visit and it's pretty true and shows how AEW is building a roster of incredible depth that there is so many ways to mix and match the matches that it can be freshened up in the blink of an eye. I did mention JE being part of the finale but the gist of it is there. 

 

Quote"
The depth of their roster should be noted as well. This PPV didn't feature: Adam Page, Andrade, Cody & Dustin Rhodes, Dark Order, Frankie Kazarian, Inner Circle & The PInnacle(cameos aside), Lance Archer, Malaki Black, PAC or Team Taz. Best Friends, Jurassic Express and HFO made the pre-show. You could probably make a PPV card out of those names alone! Can't wait for this weeks Dynamite."

[BomberPat]

the other thing about the depth of their roster is that this show also had Minoru Suzuki showing up, and the night before had Jon Moxley showing up to a GCW show. The "Forbidden Door" stuff can be a bit overdone, but they've captured the most exciting aspect of the Monday Night Wars, that sense that absolutely anyone could conceivably show up anywhere - only now it's not just two big companies with a smaller one nipping at their heels, but the entire wrestling world. AEW talent could show up in Impact, NJPW, AAA and NWA, or on tiny little indie shows, and vice-versa, on top of all the potential signings from WWE.

In terms of potential big matches, I don't think any wrestling promotion has ever felt this wide open - even when WCW were in a position to sign all the biggest names in wrestling, and bring in all the luchadores and cruiserweights and guys from NJPW, they were names we mostly knew through reputation; now, if AEW bring in someone from NJPW or AAA, we can watch those shows in real time too. If Moxley shows up in GCW, it's not just something we read about online or in a magazine two months after the fact, we can watch it all play out. In a lot of ways, wrestling's never been more exciting.

[JimmyAnderson]

Well I guess it was rather enjoyable. From top to bottom it was boss.

Miro and Kingston was a belter. I've seen a few people say Eddie should win the title in New York, but I'd rather see Miro hold onto it for a lot longer. And his undefeated record should be a massive deal when it finally happens. That could be Jungle Boy's breakout singles moment.

Moxley and Kojima was considered a let down when announced but it still delivered in the ring. And the aftermath with Suzuki was just as enjoyable. The crowd ate it up as well, which always helps.

Baker and Statlander was a decent enough match. Right result but it was never really going to go any other way. Statlander, I must admit I don't get. There's better opponents for Baker down the road but they've got their work cut out to build up anybody the crowd are gonna care for as much as they do Britt.

Young Bucks and Lucha Brothers was every bit as good as people have already said it was. And the Lucha's entrance was immense. I said the other day that I thought Penta and Fenix would win but once the bag with the shoe got thrown into the ring, I thought the Bucks would retain to prove that not even a cage could keep the outside shenanigans out leading to AEW's first ever hell in a cell type match. But thankfully they didn't go down that route. Be interesting to see where the Lucha Brothers go now. I'm not in any desperate urge to see Punk and Danielson team up to face the Young Bucks either yet. 

Casino Battle Royal was awkward in stages because these type of matches usually are, even more so when you have a lot of inexperienced or just not very good people in the match. Rhio seemed to get one of the louder reactions from the crowd, which was good considering she's not been on Dynamite or Rampage for a while. Thought they'd of showcased Cargill a bit more - her eliminating Nyla Rose would of been huge. Right person probably won as there was no other obvious choice.

Jericho and MJF was probably their best match, emotion wise. I don't like it when other refs get involved though, just because it's one of those things that they only do when it suits the storyline rather than every match when there's shit like that. Jericho's entrance was every bit as shit as Lucha Bros was good. But hopefully now he'll take some time off and MJF can move onto the next feud, which could be against almost anybody at this point. Even if it starts with him going after the officials for their interfering until somebody comes to their rescue. 

Punk and Allin was incredible. What either man does next is going to be fun. Though I do hope they don't overexpose Punk because they feel they have to. People have said the reaction to him on Dynamite didn't have as much bite as the Rampage one, well it won't when you've already seen the return less than a week before. They do a great job of rotating people in and out of their shows, hopefully they do with Punk as well - over the course of time. For the immediate future, it's probably best to keep him on screen. Allin, really needs a big win over a big name. His record is impressive but other than the TNT Title win over Cody and a no DQ victory over Matt Hardy, he's always come up short against the more established global names. In singles matches, his defeats have come thrice to Cody, once to Jericho, once to Moxley, once to Miro, once to PAC and now to Punk. The only non-WWE guy he's lost in singles competition to is Hangman. So he could do with a few more wins over the more household names rather than just the Daniel Garcia's/Wheeler Yuta's/Cezar Bononi's of this world.

Wight and Marshall was everything it should of been. Short and insignificant.

Omega and Christian delivered a match the way people thought they would. Two in-ring greats gave us a great main event. AEW gave us a great ending. Cole's surprise and joining the Elite was great and then Bryan arriving to save the day was the icing on the cake. It felt as if they knew they'd got every decision right on the night and still wanted to send the fans home happy, rather than the final image being the Elite standing tall again. 

[theringmaster]

19 hours ago, FelatioLips said:

I think The Good Brothers have long overtaken the likes of Albert as the “they were good in Japan” trope. They’ve been fucking crap everywhere they’ve been. Gallows peaked as Festus and Karl Anderson hasn’t ever impressed.

 

I always got the impression they are just well connected, people like Styles, Devitt, Omega, Bucks etc speak so highly of them so land them jobs. I always thought they look like they are in the wrong era, they would have been better suited to mid 90's.

[Chris B]

I'm looking back over Wrestlemania X7, and it was a real mistake of WWE to concentrate on so many ex-WCW guys. Their main event even had an ex-WCW guy going over a homegrown WWE guy. The match before it was both ex-WCW guys as well. You didn't even get a McMahon vs McMahon match without an ex-WCW guy as the referee. So weird.

[seph]

1 minute ago, theringmaster said:

I always got the impression they are just well connected, people like Styles, Devitt, Omega, Bucks etc speak so highly of them so land them jobs. I always thought they look like they are in the wrong era, they would have been better suited to mid 90's.

Definitely in the NWO Hollywood B-Squad/Brutus Beefcake mould. HHH would have been the same if not for the obvious relationship.

 

5 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I'm looking back over Wrestlemania X7, and it was a real mistake of WWE to concentrate on so many ex-WCW guys. Their main event even had an ex-WCW guy going over a homegrown WWE guy. The match before it was both ex-WCW guys as well. You didn't even get a McMahon vs McMahon match without an ex-WCW guy as the referee. So weird.

ALMOST bit on that.

[mim731]

I won't quote the whole message, but @BomberPat is spot on there. It's about presentation and perception. The majority of "ex-WWE" talent on the AEW roster aren't being presented (beyond the initial anti-WWE promo on certain debuts, but even that seems to be something AEW are slowly easing off now) as the same wrestlers from WWE. They're being given the room to reinvent themselves and become something different entirely.

For me, that's the big difference with WCW's over-saturation with ex-WWE wrestlers in the late 90s, they were essentially presented as the same as their WWE characters, but now on WCW TV. It was the idea they were jumping ship because WWF was the Titanic, where AEW is letting that talent evolve into something new, and become unique AEW talent in a way WCW never did. 

[BomberPat]

28 minutes ago, JimmyAnderson said:

Jericho and MJF was probably their best match, emotion wise. I don't like it when other refs get involved though, just because it's one of those things that they only do when it suits the storyline rather than every match when there's shit like that. 

I actually think they managed this really well. Generally I would agree with you - most Dusty Finishes fail because you just think, "well, why aren't refs reversing the decision of every other match when a heel gets away with something?", but this time it happened because there was already a second referee at ringside as a result of them coming out to break up the Hager/Wardlow scrap. It's refreshing to see wrestling where things happen for a reason.

And the referee who reversed the decision was introduced in the main event as the senior official, so he presumably would have had the authority to overturn Audrey's decision.