The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[air_raid]

40 minutes ago, Tsurutagun said:

It's not going to happen because WWE but Seth should talk about his change of dress sense amd character and the reason he has done this is because he mentally compensating for his back being fucked up. 

It ends upbringing a human side to this character. Have Seth talk about how nervous he gets about his back and how scared he is that his career could be over with one big impact and how when he hears the fans sing his song he's in his happy place. The fans will sing the song louder. 

Yes, if Vince has any influence on creative still, this is the kind of thing he'd definitely veto because heroes should be "tough." Toxic masculinity etc. Ignoring the fact that the most over a hero got in the years since Cena broke through, was either the skinny straight edger who didn't look like he could beat up anyone, or the diminutive conservationist and vegan that he had his son-in-law and mouthpiece refer to as "B plus player" on TV because that's how he felt.

[BomberPat]

I don't think CM Punk is necessarily the best example there because, for all that he didn't have the conventional WWE look, he still carried himself - and still does carry himself - in a fairly conventionally "macho" way. 

I think probably the best counterpoint within WWE would be Sami Zayn. He elevated the Bloodline story from brooding WWE melodrama to something with some actual heart to it, largely because he was permitted to show vulnerability and weakness - and that all started out as a bit of a joke, with him as a pathetic character.

I think so much of WWE booking tropes are easier understood when you look at them through the lens of Vince McMahon's myriad neuroses - men should never show weakness, babyfaces stand alone and don't have friends, the only people who ever have "best friends" are baddies and even then generally only as a precursor to one backstabbing the other. Just a fundamentally broken, toxic view of the world that makes it refreshing when someone like Sami Zayn breaks through while showing vulnerability, or when the New Day first got big as a positive portrayal of genuine male friendship. Not to turn this into a WWE vs. AEW thing, but you'd never in WWE get a character with the layers of an Eddie Kingston; a hard man whose successes and failures are deeply tied to his mental health and difficulty in regulating his emotions. That character in WWE would be throwing temper tantrums and wearing a straitjacket within three months. 

[Kfogg1991]

I think the above comments and statements are correct and valid. I personally think and believe one of the biggest problems and issues with the WWE product and it has always been the case for as far back as you look....is they have consistently rehashed and done the same things with characters and in ring storylines to the point where it gets boring and deflating for the fans because Vince's biggest problem is he treats the WWE universe like they are stupid and the lowest common denominator which just isn't true.

There will always be a place for big characters like John Cena ext because there is a huge audience of children but they constantly overlook the older audience which is also as important as the young ones. The era of the attitude era is gone and that will never happen again but you don't have to go from that too a completely washed down product with nothing sustainable and interesting for all audiences.

Like mentioned above the fans and audience made the new day what they became....they made cm punk......they have made Sami Zane and Cody Rhodes what they are and the level of stars because they started to do something we bought into and got behind.....in my opinion this has been the worst thing when it comes to the WWE and I won't ever understand it, when they are trying to push someone so hard down our throats it doesn't work but Vince is so close minded he doesn't care and thinks we're the problem and we will get there eventually..... but they don't capitalise and run with genuine made star's like a Sami Zane because it wasn't in the plans and it will all die down eventually.......why would you want that......the best things in entertainment is and has always been the things that naturally become big deals because it's what us the fan base has been drawn to and embraced.

I'm not saying for one second they should change the direction at every single situation however they pretty much refuse 99.9% of the time to listen and go with these things making amazing moments and subsequently creating even bigger stars for there roster as a whole because they have written the storylines for the next six/twelve months and that wasn't what was written so they won't consider going with it and changing it up.

Just listen to that reaction to Cody/Sami/Kevin this week they are red hot superstars on that roster and they aren't really using any of them to a capacity that makes sense and feeds into that worldwide reaction right now 

[SuperBacon]

5 minutes ago, Kfogg1991 said:

the older audience which is also as important as the young ones.

It's not.

[DavidB6937]

Bloody hell. That was as if someone asked ChatGPT to write an anti-Vince rant.

[d-d-d-dAz]

23 minutes ago, Kfogg1991 said:

I think the above comments and statements are correct and valid. I personally think and believe one of the biggest problems and issues with the WWE product and it has always been the case for as far back as you look....is they have consistently rehashed and done the same things with characters and in ring storylines to the point where it gets boring and deflating for the fans because Vince's biggest problem is he treats the WWE universe like they are stupid and the lowest common denominator which just isn't true.

There will always be a place for big characters like John Cena ext because there is a huge audience of children but they constantly overlook the older audience which is also as important as the young ones. The era of the attitude era is gone and that will never happen again but you don't have to go from that too a completely washed down product with nothing sustainable and interesting for all audiences.

Like mentioned above the fans and audience made the new day what they became....they made cm punk......they have made Sami Zane and Cody Rhodes what they are and the level of stars because they started to do something we bought into and got behind.....in my opinion this has been the worst thing when it comes to the WWE and I won't ever understand it, when they are trying to push someone so hard down our throats it doesn't work but Vince is so close minded he doesn't care and thinks we're the problem and we will get there eventually..... but they don't capitalise and run with genuine made star's like a Sami Zane because it wasn't in the plans and it will all die down eventually.......why would you want that......the best things in entertainment is and has always been the things that naturally become big deals because it's what us the fan base has been drawn to and embraced.

I'm not saying for one second they should change the direction at every single situation however they pretty much refuse 99.9% of the time to listen and go with these things making amazing moments and subsequently creating even bigger stars for there roster as a whole because they have written the storylines for the next six/twelve months and that wasn't what was written so they won't consider going with it and changing it up.

Just listen to that reaction to Cody/Sami/Kevin this week they are red hot superstars on that roster and they aren't really using any of them to a capacity that makes sense and feeds into that worldwide reaction right now 

The last paragraph undermines the rest of your points, they've got 3 'red hot superstars' in the main event of Raw at a time when the business is roaring and 2 companies are doing gates of >80,000 people.

The WWE have definitely made missteps, but their broad strategic point of trying to cultivate a youth audience first and foremost and then allowing that to grow with the product is broadly sound and is something other sports properties are starting to do themselves (older cricket fans will be saying the same things as you about Tom Harrison, the ECB and The Hundred).

[Loki]

That Gable - Gunther match really was a little beauty.  It's something WWE does better than AEW nowadays - a simple wrestling match.  Almost no high spots or top rope moves, no planchas, no head-drops, all incredibly safe and just with extremely good bumping and selling.  The crowd were into it as well, going "ooh" on an armbar reversal which the guys should feel proud of.

 

 

[Mr_Danger]

What’s the ceiling with Chad Gable? Is it too late to go full Kurt Angle with him? He’s a fantastic little worker.

[Loki]

He's small. But he didn't look out of place in there with Gunther, who's huge.  I think IC and occasional main events or even a world title shot is about his level.  He's more like a modern day Owen Hart than Kurt Angle.

[The King of Old School]

16 hours ago, Mr_Danger said:

What’s the ceiling with Chad Gable? Is it too late to go full Kurt Angle with him? He’s a fantastic little worker.

I hope he can get something going as i think he is fantastic, especially in this current character.

Unfortunately I think he has been booked as a loser for too long for the fans to genuinely care about him.

[OzExile]

2 hours ago, The King of Old School said:

I hope he can get something going as i think he is fantastic, especially in this current character.

Unfortunately I think he has been booked as a loser for too long for the fans to genuinely care about him.

He's got American Alpha over more than anyone could have imagined. I'm loving his story with Gunther. He's the obvious next Babyface to elevate but they haven't even put over Cody for the belt yet! 

[RedRooster]

I've been enjoying Raw recently, but this show didn't really click for me. I'm not sure why exactly, there wasn't anything obviously bad about it. Maybe it was a crash after the highs of All In, I don't know. But I found it a real slog, even with the fast-forward button to hand. 

I quite like what they're doing with Nakamura, though. I hope they finally give the World Heavyweight title a main event slot at the next PPV, given that Roman won't be around. 

I'm also curious as to how they'll get the IC title off Gunther. There's absolutely no obvious person to dethrone him, unless they go with Cody - and I'm not sure what that would actually achieve in the grand scheme of things. Maybe they could have Jey Uso turn up on Raw and challenge for (and win) the belt?

[WyattSheepMask]

3 hours ago, RedRooster said:

 

I'm also curious as to how they'll get the IC title off Gunther. There's absolutely no obvious person to dethrone him, unless they go with Cody - and I'm not sure what that would actually achieve in the grand scheme of things. Maybe they could have Jey Uso turn up on Raw and challenge for (and win) the belt?

It’s a tricky one. They could do like they did with Asuka when she left NXT and vacate the belt, sort of a “I’ve proved myself the greatest IC Champion, now I want the World title”. However, if they don’t plan on putting the World title on him, which I don’t think they do right now but it could be an option, what do you do with him afterwards? If you don’t put the belt on him, He’s then been beaten and can either challenge for the IC belt again or just linger in the midcard.

I can’t see them having Nakamura beat Rollins for the title, but Rollins dropping it to Gunther and feuding through the winter months might not be a way to go. Rollins gets a proper smacking which would be very enjoyable to watch, and you can build a babyface (not sure who exactly) in the meantime en route to Wrestlemania.

If they haven’t got a face ready, bring Lesnar back as a face. Belt on Gunther > Lesnar wins the Rumble > Gunther v Lesnar at Wrestlemania  in an America v Evil Foreigner Match  

Edited August 29, 2023 by WyattSheepMask

[air_raid]

49 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said:

It’s a tricky one. They could do like they did with Asuka when she left NXT and vacate the belt, sort of a “I’ve proved myself the greatest IC Champion, now I want the World title”.

I’d prefer them not to devalue the belt like that and him pursue the big belt regardless. Hated it when Stone Cold gave away the ICT, would hate it today.

51 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said:

If they haven’t got a face ready, bring Lesnar back as a face. Belt on Gunther > Lesnar wins the Rumble > Gunther v Lesnar at Wrestlemania  in an America v Evil Foreigner Match  

I totally misread this as Lesnar winning the Rumble and electing to use it to challenge for the ICT (if in kayfabe he would be allowed to). Which while I’d hate for anyone to be dumb enough to win the Rumble and not challenge for the big belt…. it would be something new for Brock to declare “I’ve not won this belt, ever, so I want to.” Then Gunther could lose to title to him and lose ZERO credibility in losing to a guy on his level, then the ICT remains a massive prize for someone to get a huge rub when Lesnar drops it.

Knowing WWE however it will probably end up on Austin Theory.

[WyattSheepMask]

43 minutes ago, air_raid said:

I’d prefer them not to devalue the belt like that and him pursue the big belt regardless. Hated it when Stone Cold gave away the ICT, would hate it today.

I’m not saying its a great idea and yeah it does perhaps devalue the belt in the process, something which his reign has gone a long way in elevating the belt, but it’s a way of getting the belt off of him without having him get beat. You could run the triple threat of him against Sheamus and Drew back and have one of them take the belt by beating the other. Gets the belt off Gunther without him getting beat and then you’ve got Sheamus v Drew for the IC belt going forward

As for keeping it on him and having Brock challenge for the IC belt via Rumble win - sure, why not? You’d have to explain away all the “winner gets to main event Wrestlemania” marketing, but you can do that with the old New Gen “anything can happen in the WWF”, and you’ve still got the Elimination Chamber to crown a contender to the big belt.

Edited August 29, 2023 by WyattSheepMask