Wrestling #MeToo #SpeakingOut

[The Dart]

WWE have removed Matt Riddle from the Smackdown previews for tonight. 

It's already pre-taped right?   So maybe too late to edit him out, but they're just not promoting it anymore.

[Carbomb]

Darrell Allen now, it seems.

EDIT: Seems they've put up screenshots of Justin Roberts also doing stuff by text.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Carbomb

[JamesTyler]

2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Oh absolutely people knew. No doubt about it. But either because (a) they didn't give a shit or (b) they were too scared to lose their position or ruffle feathers etc, a lot of them won't have ever come forward. It's a tough situation for some people to be put in, especially if they think they won't be believed and it's someone who's held in high regards by a lot of others.

I haven't logged in here in years. I probably won't again. I'll probably have angry messages on Facebook afterwards....

I worked with three promotions in Scotland. I'll say openly, there were people who knew things. I knew things. My working relationship with one of the accused, Whiplash, began to fracturte with that I knew. Other working relationships began to fracture because I saw it dismissed. Someone who I once considered a close friend once said to me, while I had to investigate a case of sexual harassment against one of our female trainees "It's wrestling, what does she expect."

That same person was to be blacklisted a few years later after he pressured her into a sexual relationship and that fling became public. I have no doubt this was to ensure his girlfriend of the time never found out. And from what I learned from her afterwards.... she not only didn't know, but she was also a victim of severe psychological (and financial) abuse.

We knew. We tracked. We monitored. I got into an argument because I refused to book someone who had been abusive to his partner (mentioned as having a "halo" round him here, I believe) and I lost people who I considered friends over the treatment of others. I never held these people in high regard. I stopped using Whiplash and avoided the question of bookings with him while I looked into his background - it blew up in my face and all shit hit all the fans.

Because no matter what we knew, those with sway would always be in his corner. One "friend" and currently benched NXT talent reached out to me to say he knew. But he still stood by him. Other promoters stood by him until he punched a female talent and it was suspension #34. Other friends, who would openly berate any rivals stood by him. As Jayla Dark said, it was Stockholm syndrome.

I've used Whiplash as one example. He wasn't the only one. But I know many who did give a shit. They did want to ruffle feathers. But at the same time, there were people who didn't want their halo stained. Pivitol support would defend bullying and harassment not to speak out. Those abused were suppressed, and those who wanted to speak out were too.

People cared. People wanted to come forward. Some even did and were silenced (As an example, I did, I got a shit ton of abuse for it - as did my wife, who Whiplash tried to bully into silence to no avail!). There were good people trying. There were other people trying to protect themselves and their friends - I hope they're named too, as they deserve to face the consequences of what kind of beast they created: And what we know as public so far is just the tip of a very large iceberg.

Edited June 19, 2020 by JamesTyler

[Liam O'Rourke]

The Justin Roberts stuff I've seen is bullshit and totally unfair to him. Good luck separating fact from fiction now that the floodgates are open. The arsehole scumbags should be cast aside, no doubt, but trying to use this to ruin a guys career for a flirty two-way conversation with somebody of legal age is horseshit. Unless I'm missing something, in which case a swift edit will be happily made...

EDIT - She's 17. 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Liam O'Rourke

[Lorne Malvo]

9 minutes ago, Liam O'Rourke said:

The Justin Roberts stuff I've seen is bullshit and totally unfair to him. Good luck separating fact from fiction now that the floodgates are open. The arsehole scumbags should be cast aside, no doubt, but trying to use this to ruin a guys career for a flirty two-way conversation with somebody of legal age is horseshit. Unless I'm missing something, in which case a shift edit will be happily made...

 

The stuff I've seen is him pestering a 17 year old girl for pics while he was in his 30s. It's not on the more extreme side of the scale but it's still massively predatory behaviour and really not on.

[Carbomb]

They've just posted Vince Russo and Stephen Fludder now. Bloody hell, they really have opened the sluice-gate.

EDIT: They've also posted a German one, which nobody seems to have found a translator for, but it was rather disturbing to see a word that's jumped the language barrier: "Ringrat".

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Carbomb

[Devon Malcolm]

14 minutes ago, Liam O'Rourke said:

The Justin Roberts stuff I've seen is bullshit and totally unfair to him. Good luck separating fact from fiction now that the floodgates are open. The arsehole scumbags should be cast aside, no doubt, but trying to use this to ruin a guys career for a flirty two-way conversation with somebody of legal age is horseshit. Unless I'm missing something, in which case a shift edit will be happily made...

You are missing something. Again, this is *not* just about physical abuse, this is about predatory and grooming behaviour which is clearly what this is.

[Liam O'Rourke]

9 minutes ago, Lorne Malvo said:

The stuff I've seen is him pestering a 17 year old girl for pics while he was in his 30s. It's not on the more extreme side of the scale but it's still massively predatory behaviour and really not on.

Its not great on the age front, its sleazy when you know, but he's not breaking a law, and the key is that there's no proof he even knows her age. Since she's giving it back to him as well, its not like he's laying it on thick and she's having no part of it and saying no, I'm 17 in any of this. Thats unspoken subtext. It doesn't belong in the same category until more is seen and proven is all.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Liam O'Rourke

[BomberPat]

1 minute ago, Devon Malcolm said:

You are missing something. Again, this is *not* just about physical abuse, this is about predatory and grooming behaviour which is clearly what this is.

There's also that we're only seeing what the women in question are comfortable sharing publicly. While there are obviously gradients of behaviour to be considered here, and it can be difficult to determine tone, we have to assume that women (and these women who have been around all the creeps of wrestling for year especially) can tell the difference between honest flirtation, a clumsy pass, and something more sinister.

[pitseleh]

1 minute ago, Liam O'Rourke said:

Its not great on the age front, its sleazy when you know, but he's not breaking a law, and the key is thay there's no proof he even knows her age. She's giving it back to him as well, its not long he's laying it on thick and she's having no part of it. It doesn't belong in the same category. 

Even if it's legal for him to be with a 17 year old, it's still illegal to have nudes of someone who's under 18 even if she is giving it back to him. Roberts was in his mid 30's when this happened and the guy shouldn't be messaging a 17 year old, full stop. 

[Tommy!]

3 hours ago, Carbomb said:

A lot of this stuff has genuinely shocked me. It says the "Wall of Shane" was something everyone knew about, but honestly - this is the first I've heard about it, and I hung around the FWA a fair bit in 2004/5. I knew there was a bit of a toxic culture as regards women, but I always had that down as general laddish behaviour like boys boasting about conquests or "bantz lol" which, whilst obviously not acceptable, I honestly didn't know was the tip of a fucking horrendous iceberg

I didn't meet many people in wrestling, and most of those I did were nice men and women (two in particular may be the nicest people I've ever met) but the only person I met who genuinely made me uncomfortable to be in the same room as was Alex Shane. Now that was because, in my experience, he was a bully and a carny of the highest order who behaved appallingly and was one of the most unpleasant people I've ever met.

Totally different to the behaviour in the statements made, which are horrific and reprehensible on a whole other level, but I'm not surprised my experience was the tip of an iceberg I'm just appalled to here how horrid what's below the water level is. 

[Liam O'Rourke]

20 minutes ago, pitseleh said:

Even if it's legal for him to be with a 17 year old, it's still illegal to have nudes of someone who's under 18 even if she is giving it back to him. Roberts was in his mid 30's when this happened and the guy shouldn't be messaging a 17 year old, full stop. 

No, he really shouldn't be, not arguing that. 

My point is there is an assumption of knowledge here that hasn't been proven yet, and the story could just as easily be him thinking things were different based on what's been posted, and people aren't bothering to wait, they're tagging Tony Khan and Cody and telling them to fire him.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Liam O'Rourke

[Lenin]

25 minutes ago, JamesTyler said:

I haven't logged in here in years. I probably won't again. I'll probably have angry messages on Facebook afterwards....

I worked with three promotions in Scotland. I'll say openly, there were people who knew things. I knew things. My working relationship with one of the accused, Whiplash, began to fracturte with that I knew. Other working relationships began to fracture because I saw it dismissed. Someone who I once considered a close friend once said to me, while I had to investigate a case of sexual harassment against one of our female trainees "It's wrestling, what does she expect."

That same person was to be blacklisted a few years later after he pressured her into a sexual relationship and that fling became public. I have no doubt this was to ensure his girlfriend of the time never found out. And from what I learned from her afterwards.... she not only didn't know, but she was also a victim of severe psychological (and financial) abuse.

We knew. We tracked. We monitored. I got into an argument because I refused to book someone who had been abusive to his partner (mentioned as having a "halo" round him here, I believe) and I lost people who I considered friends over the treatment of others. I never held these people in high regard. I stopped using Whiplash and avoided the question of bookings with him while I looked into his background - it blew up in my face and all shit hit all the fans.

Because no matter what we knew, those with sway would always be in his corner. One "friend" and currently benched NXT talent reached out to me to say he knew. But he still stood by him. Other promoters stood by him until he punched a female talent and it was suspension #34. Other friends, who would openly berate any rivals stood by him. As Jayla Dark said, it was Stockholm syndrome.

I've used Whiplash as one example. He wasn't the only one. But I know many who did give a shit. They did want to ruffle feathers. But at the same time, there were people who didn't want their halo stained. Pivitol support would defend bullying and harassment not to speak out. Those abused were suppressed, and those who wanted to speak out were too.

People cared. People wanted to come forward. Some even did and were silenced (As an example, I did, I got a shit ton of abuse for it - as did my wife, who Whiplash tried to bully into silence to no avail!). There were good people trying. There were other people trying to protect themselves and their friends - I hope they're named too, as they deserve to face the consequences of what kind of beast they created: And what we know as public so far is just the tip of a very large iceberg.

Very well said. The individual I'm referring to was like that going back to high school, working in the phone shop and that behaviour and giving it "I'm a big deal I'm going to WWE" (that he told every girl he ever met from as long as I remember) was the reason I eventually stopped talking to him and going to shows. 

The difficulty being you tell girls he's a nonce but they can't see past the "body" and "stardom" and I get called jealous etc and somehow I was the problem. It's a horrible situation seeing the extent of it now. 

[Mark_Doctor]

Quite surprised this story hasn't been picked up by the Guardian/BBC etc yet. Perhaps something is coming.

[seph]

Good timing.