#BlackLivesMatter

[PunkStep]

Ignorance is massively damaging. To dismiss any notion that racism isn't a very real issue in this country is almost as problematic as racism itself. If you cannot see a reason to change, and many others share this stance, then what will change?

 

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were monkey chants were a normal thing . Go back further in history and it will make you sick to the stomach , would all this happen today ? No it wouldn’t and it hasn’t happened for a long while 

There have been MANY instances of monkey chants mad at football games in this country over the past couple of years. Many. Rudiger, Fred, Sterling, Renee Hector. These are instances I can recall from the top of my head. 

 

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people need to look at there history and compare society today to how it was 

So? Just because we've made massive strides it doesn't mean racism doesn't still exist. We have come a long way but it's not enough.

 

1 hour ago, bono said:

No it hasn’t changed in two weeks I totally agree with you but the longer this thing goes on the more damage it will do to society, it will create racism and cause divide these people originally protesting have ever seen . Their marching for equality when the results will be the total opposite. 
 

How will these marches 'create' racism? It will bring racist views to the surface, which have been bubbling under- that's not the same as creating racism. I don't think somebody is all of a sudden going to think 'hang on a minute, I don't like black people any more because they are protesting'. No. Those people will have always had racist views, but they now have a platform to express this because the counter-protest marches (which are nothing more than racist marches, let's be honest) have enabled these views.

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if society was that bad and Black people were getting abused left right and center , not getting jobs not getting into university’s or schools.  Not having equality why wasn’t all this happening before George floyd death ? 

Of course it was happening before, and I suppose my last response above works here too. The George Floyd death has highlighted once again (and this is not an isolated incident) that the Western world is rife with racism, and a high-profile incident like this puts eyes on the problem. When eyes are on the problem, that's an opportunity to raise awareness that we still have SO much work to do.

 

1 hour ago, bono said:

You lefties really need to look into your history and see how far this country has come probably more then any other country in the world on racism. Is it perfect ? no it’s never ever going to be perfect 

In your first post you stated 'By the way I’m not a right wing supporter, right wing left wing it’s all A load of bollcoks', and here you open with 'you lefties'. I think that speaks volumes. Anyway, why is it a 'leftie' thing to want our society rid of racism? Answer me that. Is it ever going to be perfect? No, I don't suppose it ever will. But we are still so far from it, so to dismiss this by saying 'well, it's not as bad as it used to be, so let's just leave it there shall we?' is a very dangerous and damaging viewpoint to have.

 

1 hour ago, bono said:

So you don’t think Ripping the Churchill statue down isn’t going to cause a lot of problems ?

When did that happen?

[SuperBacon]

Lads, it's 10am on a nice sunny Sunday, go and do something instead of feeding the troll.

I've just had a lovely oat milk latte and am about to eat a scrambled tofu and avocado wrap in the park. 

There is no helping him, why even try? 

[ElCece]

2 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Lads, it's 10am on a nice sunny Sunday, go and do something instead of feeding the troll.

I've just had a lovely oat milk latte and am about to eat a scrambled tofu and avocado wrap in the park. 

There is no helping him, why even try? 

I swear you have told us about the wrap and latte to draw heat onto yourself and remove the attention the troll desires and I applaud your efforts. 

[PunkStep]

3 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Lads, it's 10am on a nice sunny Sunday, go and do something instead of feeding the troll.

I've just had a lovely oat milk latte and am about to eat a scrambled tofu and avocado wrap in the park. 

There is no helping him, why even try? 

No. I don't think he's trolling and I believe he genuinely believes there isn't a problem. There are many people out there that are of the same opinion.

We have a duty to make them aware that the things aren't good. If we don't try, then what's the point? We would be failing the BLM movement. The people who think there isn't a problem will continue to believe there isn't a problem and nothing will change.

[Lenin]

Agree with PunkStep. In my opinion if we stop trying things will regress. It might seem like things can't get better, it might seem like "we've done all we can" but as the next generation it is our responsibility to do better. It might take years, it might feel difficult (as it should because we are confronting horrific attitudes and biased) but that's no excuse for downing tools. 

Incremental gains and improvements. Racism isn't going to disappear overnight but we push forward so that it gets just a little better. There's been no concerted effort across society or politics. Now is the time to try and achieve that consensus as it's only with everyone on board we can start to move mountains.

Bono might not fully understand, rightly or wrongly, so it's up to us to try and educate. 

** As an addendum, even if things can't get better (history will be the judge) we sure as hell shouldn't allow them to regress and get worse. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Suplex Sinner
Spelling

[DavidB6937]

Yeah I think it's all too easy to dismiss people as trolls for having a different opinion. If we just ignore them then nothing will ever change.

[Jazzy G]

Saw a friend post this on her Facebook this morning. BLM protestors helping one of the other group get out of there for medical attention after they'd been battered. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/black-lives-matter-protest-carries-injured-far-right-safety-waterloo-london-a9564946.html

[bono]

39 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

This is the stupidest sentence I've ever read.

The point I’m making is I don’t see him as a black friend I see him as his name , the colour of his skin has no interests to me . 

[SuperBacon]

18 minutes ago, PunkStep said:

No. I don't think he's trolling and I believe he genuinely believes there isn't a problem. There are many people out there that are of the same opinion.

We have a duty to make them aware that the things aren't good. If we don't try, then what's the point? We would be failing the BLM movement. The people who think there isn't a problem will continue to believe there isn't a problem and nothing will change.

Troll was possibly the wrong word. I appreciate your point of view, and understand, but I think he is chatting bollocks of the highest order, spouting thinly veiled coded racist nonsense, and every post is the same.

I believe that yes, we should be trying to engage with people to understand, so I hope you get to change his mind about things.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

7 minutes ago, bono said:

The point I’m making is I don’t see him as a black friend I see him as his name , the colour of his skin has no interests to me . 

But to him its had an effect on his entire life. By ignoring his skin colour you ignore his struggles and his journey through life.

You may find the following article to be of interest.

https://theeverygirl.com/i-dont-see-color/

Edited June 14, 2020 by ReturnOfTheMack

[DavidB6937]

1 minute ago, ReturnOfTheMack said:

But to him its had an effect on his entire life. By ignoring his skin colour you ignore his struggles and his journey through life.

This is something I'm happy to put my hands up and admit that I've been wrong about in the past. I always thought the right thing to do was just treat all my friends the same. But as well as being inclusive, I've learnt that I do need to recognise the differences in their life experiences. Just ignoring those doesn't help whatsoever.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Yeah, I had no idea until it was pointed out to me. And that's the thing, listen, learn, grow.

[Hannibal Scorch]

If you don’t think you’re racist because you don’t agree with racism, or because you have a friend or friends that are black, that’s great. But just because that’s what you do, doesn’t mean everyone does. 
 

if you think racism doesn’t exist because you’re not a part of the problem, or it’s never effected you, doesn’t stop racism, systematically or personally being a problem.

My godson is mixed race. My daughter from birth has had my friends, and there kids in her life. She had no idea skin colour was an issue. When she was 4, she bought a book about Rosa Parks from a kids range called Little People, Big Dreams (highly recommend the series to any parents here btw). My wife read it to her, and my daughter said to her, “does that mean I couldn’t be friends with Tobias and Josiah then?” My wife said reading the book she felt sick, having to explain what used to happen and what segregation meant. My daughter, through those books and others understands more about racism then I ever got taught a school. 
 

Right now is a great opportunity for people to listen and learn. There is no magic plaster, there is no quick fix, but if we don’t try and change our ways, it will always be an issue. I just hope that we can raise the next generation to be better then a lot of us would be. But that also means in school we do teach more about the history of slavery, issues of race and diversity so we can all do better. But just saying I’m not racist so racism doesn’t exist here, isn’t enough.

[bono]

52 minutes ago, PunkStep said:

Ignorance is massively damaging. To dismiss any notion that racism isn't a very real issue in this country is almost as problematic as racism itself. If you cannot see a reason to change, and many others share this stance, then what will change?

 

There have been MANY instances of monkey chants mad at football games in this country over the past couple of years. Many. Rudiger, Fred, Sterling, Renee Hector. These are instances I can recall from the top of my head. 

 

So? Just because we've made massive strides it doesn't mean racism doesn't still exist. We have come a long way but it's not enough.

 

How will these marches 'create' racism? It will bring racist views to the surface, which have been bubbling under- that's not the same as creating racism. I don't think somebody is all of a sudden going to think 'hang on a minute, I don't like black people any more because they are protesting'. No. Those people will have always had racist views, but they now have a platform to express this because the counter-protest marches (which are nothing more than racist marches, let's be honest) have enabled these views.

Of course it was happening before, and I suppose my last response above works here too. The George Floyd death has highlighted once again (and this is not an isolated incident) that the Western world is rife with racism, and a high-profile incident like this puts eyes on the problem. When eyes are on the problem, that's an opportunity to raise awareness that we still have SO much work to do.

 

In your first post you stated 'By the way I’m not a right wing supporter, right wing left wing it’s all A load of bollcoks', and here you open with 'you lefties'. I think that speaks volumes. Anyway, why is it a 'leftie' thing to want our society rid of racism? Answer me that. Is it ever going to be perfect? No, I don't suppose it ever will. But we are still so far from it, so to dismiss this by saying 'well, it's not as bad as it used to be, so let's just leave it there shall we?' is a very dangerous and damaging viewpoint to have.

 

When did that happen?

Just to make a comment on being called a troll 🙂 if throwing a different point of view  to your own is trolling then what’s the point in having a debate ? Not aimed at you punk by the way 

The point I’m trying to make is equality is there it has been for years , people marching for equality when they have it . Nobody will ever convince me otherwise 

Yeah racism ushers it’s ugly head from time to time but in our society it’s unacceptable. Before it was acceptable and people have done a lot along the way to make it unacceptable. You can’t do more then making it unacceptable in society I’m sorry your can’t. 
 

You mentioned the football games , yes I know the incidents your talking about but you can’t compare that to abuse received in the 1970’s when that was the Norm and the large majority of the grounds did it . Your talking about incidents were it’s 1 in 50,000 . 
 

I honestly believe this is causing a big divide then the one you speak of . It can create bigger problems . If the Churchill statue comes down it will cause mass riots everywhere and for what ? 
 

it’s a good point you make about me using the word lefties , I take that back shouldn’t have said that . 

a lot of this is media driven , the media are stirring the pot . Anything that’s aimed towards a black person in the media is a race attack when it could be far from it. Don’t believe everything you read . Some people automatically presume it’s racism when there may have been issues nothing to do with skin colour 
 

i was in fact behind the whole thing when it started. The murder of George Floyd was disgusting. I remember my football club tweeting a picture of “together were stronger “ what a message that is by the way . Some fan tweeted back saying he wants a refund for his season ticket and Albion replied saying you won’t be missed . I thought that was amazing . There’s nothing prouder for me being a West Brom fan knowing how my club developed black culture in the 70’s , nothing prouder . 
 

then what turned me away from it was black people saying we want equality. You have equality it’s been achieved by your dads and grandparents. That’s my point of view and I don’t think anyone can say otherwise. 
 

then you had the statues being attacked . You know what I thought when that statue came down in Bristol? I thought well why was there a statue of a slave trader anyway ? So I don’t really have an issue with it , but it’s history it’s gone and we’re does it end , do you tear everything down that 200 plus years old cause anything that old would have links to some form of slavery . Is just black people being slaves that people have issues with? Do you tear Rome down cause they used to throw Slaves to the lions in the coliseum? We’re do you stop with it ? 
 

 

[bono]

38 minutes ago, ReturnOfTheMack said:

But to him its had an effect on his entire life. By ignoring his skin colour you ignore his struggles and his journey through life.

You may find the following article to be of interest.

https://theeverygirl.com/i-dont-see-color/

He hasn’t struggled that’s the point he was making , his skin colour has made no difference to his life , it did his dad but not him . He has had every opportunity I have had