SuperBacon Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 28 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: Why do people keep repeating this false dilemma? Why do you think we can't take a statue down and still passionately debate his place in history? I'm not even saying there aren't good reasons for leaving it up but that sure as shit isn't one. Might be a bit extreme but I don't think we should have public statues of any real people tbh. Solves the problem completely and they're really not necessary. Was reminded of these bad boys earlier, and I retract my earlier statement. These are the only statues that need to remain  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted June 12, 2020 Moderators Share Posted June 12, 2020 Let's not start that silly bollocks again.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: Let's not start that silly bollocks again.. Goths are people too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Frankie Crisp Posted June 12, 2020 Awards Moderator Share Posted June 12, 2020 59 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: Might be a bit extreme but I don't think we should have public statues of any real people tbh. But that means the Thatcher one stays up so absolutely fuck that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Teedy Kay Posted June 12, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Chest Rockwell said: I don't think we should have public statues of any real people tbh. Fictitious figures aren't any less innocent, Peter Pan for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Frankie Crisp Posted June 12, 2020 Awards Moderator Share Posted June 12, 2020 Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 13 hours ago, Chest Rockwell said: Why do people keep repeating this false dilemma? Why do you think we can't take a statue down and still passionately debate his place in history? I'm not even saying there aren't good reasons for leaving it up but that sure as shit isn't one. You take a statue down now and it generates conversation on his place in history, now.  But in 100 years, 200 years, 1000 years it doesn’t generate any interest if it doesn’t exist.  You can go to Rome and look at a statue of Julius Caesar and contemplate the man behind the writings and behind the myth.  I can go to Paris and look at Napoleon’s statue at Invalides and consider the complex position he holds in European history. For historians, statues are amazing connections to the past, probably one of the most useful.  Smashing that up just to assuage this year’s liberal guilt is shortsighted.  Removing the statue of Churchill does nothing to improve the lot of a black kid from South London, but it makes middle class people feel a bit better about themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Loki said: You can go to Rome and look at a statue of Julius Caesar and contemplate the man behind the writings and behind the myth.  I can go to Paris and look at Napoleon’s statue at Invalides and consider the complex position he holds in European history. Or you can open a book and do exactly the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Nexus Posted June 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 I am going to replan all of my lessons to only include statues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted June 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Loki said: For historians, statues are amazing connections to the past, probably one of the most useful. So what you're saying is until there's a statue put up of people toppling statues then we shouldn't topple statues. Edited June 13, 2020 by Devon Malcolm woodchuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted June 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: Or you can open a book and do exactly the same. Yeah sorry Loki but you're chatting shit. The amount of people who know historical figures because they've just happened to travel to where a statue is and contemplate it is nothing compared to just learning about it in school, or reading a book, or Wikipedia. Statues are completely unnecessary, they're ornaments to people who quite frankly for the most part don't matter any more. They had their place in history but history moves on and many more important people since them have came and went without statues. In today's world, the likes of Julius Caesar mean nothing to non-historians, and if they do just Google him. Edited June 13, 2020 by FelatioLips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted June 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2020 The Churchill statue hasn't been removed. Nor, as far as I'm aware, are there serious calls for it to be removed. It was defaced to send a message. As is right and proper. Statues are a spectacularly crap way to educate people about history. First off, they're only really relevant to the type of people who would go to Rome or Paris, who I'm pretty sure have heard of Julius Caesar and Napoleon. Secondly, we have statues of slavers across this country, and a spectacular lack of awareness of the British history of slavery. So if that's the point of them, they're shit. I'm not, for what it's worth, suggesting taking down any specific statutes. But this whole suggestion that our understanding of history will be damaged if any statues are damaged is nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: So what you're saying is until there's a statue put up of people toppling statues then we shouldn't topple statues. Until the statute of a statue is addressed by its stature, then the stature of a statue shouldn't have a statute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, FelatioLips said: In today's world, the likes of Julius Caesar mean nothing to non-historians, and if they do just Google him. Jesus Christ that’s a sad indictment of modern education if that’s true. Not everything is online and can be learned by reading Wikipedia.  A lot of people who are passionate about history, art, actually go to places in the world and look at stuff.  You should try it. Edit: the British Museum is free and packed with statuary.  Once Lockdown is over go and spend a day there, you’ll get inspired I guarantee it.  Edited June 13, 2020 by Loki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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