#BlackLivesMatter

[Keith Houchen]

30 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

they are doing a lot of work behind the scenes.

I bet they fucking are. Usually with mattresses and rubber hoses. 

[Surf Digby]

3 hours ago, Mr_Danger said:

I didn’t even know police carried knives to be honest.

Did you not hear about the Joshua Savage case last year?

All police officers carry a secret knife, just in case they have to cut someone's seatbelt and rescue them. 

[Teedy Kay]

1 hour ago, Chest Rockwell said:

I keep revisiting your post @Teedy Kay . I hope that you aren't actually a bad person, but the only conclusion I can come to then is that you're totally ignorant to the huge role you play in propping up a systemically racist status quo. Your language is really deliberately passive, and you talk about the police relationship with black communities as an unfortunate one for causal reasons totally beyond the control of the police.

You are completely conflating race and class issues as all one thing, which they are not. What you're arguing when you do this is that anyone who believes in racially motivated bias (either conscious or unconscious) is objectively wrong. It is dismissive and offensive to do so, in the same way as saying 'all lives matter' is.

You really need to read the room better in your plays for sympathy both personally and professionally.

I'm not ignorant to the hidden systemic racism in British policing, for example as I have alluded to earlier, I honestly believe more should be done to encourage recruitment of the youth in run down black communities that know their communities and the populus know them. But a barrier is in place as you now need a degree to become a copper, and we've seen that figures of young black males in these communities are being failed by the education system, meaning the Police Force and their protocols are systemically racist when it comes to recruitment. The Police will push their trying for better represtation, but when that representation isn't the right kind the doors shut. Atrocious attitude.

I do believe that relations between black communities and policing is unfortunate, it's saddening, videos of that prick racially profiling someone and thinking the excuse of 'havent see you on my patch' is adequate is shocking and should be put up and out there as a resounding example of racism. Because they don't help the relationship. It's not casual and I understand that, it's deep rooted through time. I hate Stop and Search, I understand it's reasoning from a policing view, but it's not a deterrent it's not educationally beneficial and it doesn't solve the problem and SO much more needs to be done, exactly what now the horse appears to have bolted I shake my head at and wonder.

I don't conflate race and class, but I do contrast. I'm not holding up one higher than the other either, both have serious connotations to the state our country is in. I do think comparison can be made in certain times on certain issues, and it amazes me that those who are white in Socioeconomic disparity aren't standing up in these times, instead they appear to be a driving Force in the opposite direction, mainly due to systemic racism in areas like the media. 

And on no front am I after anyone's sympathy, certainly not personally, I'm alright thanks. On the professional front, I just feel sometimes it's incredibly useful to explain things from a policing viewpoint. And I'd rather take time out of my day to explain things and hopefully garner a better understanding than be like Hannibal's "friend" on Facebook and simply pour scorn over anything.

It's why so early on in this thread I attempted to get points on Use of Force, SuperBacon obviously doesn't want to engage, but if he did and gave examples hopefully I could be that one copper that's helped. It's where it goes back to the point on relations hurt totally beyond the control of police, I don't think that. But I certainly think it works both ways.

 

Other points quickly.

Harry Stanley was 20 years ago, do I think Use of Force is right now? yes. If I get time I'll do a little test for you Surf

1500 deaths in custody, it's estimated and I'll round it down a fair bit, 75% of deaths were suicides. A percentage of the deaths were suicides AFTER release, another percentage was police shootings and another was deaths after collisions from vehicle pursuit. It was noted by someone 11% were resulted from restraint complications. UK policing has moved heavily on restraint in recent years to curb this figure, namely through ABD since the rise of Monkey Dust and other drugs like Alman. Really good work resulting in the continual allowance of certain muscle groups to be clear from restraint tballow as much oxidisation of blood as possible.

Taser deaths, there have been no deaths on UK shores due to Taser, although we await Dalian Atkinson's case, but I don't think Taser will be the main cause of death.

Stats on Blacks being proportionately more likely to be victims of knife crime, haven't got a computer by me sadly, I keep shit tonnes on my work lappy. I'm sure it was a Mayor of London study (MOPAC) which used David Lammy's findings it was a couple of years ago like, but post 2015 I'm sure. From memory the percentage of non domestic abuse knife crime victims that were black was in the 60s per cent wise.

[Keith Houchen]

Just because you’re Garthing like a motherfucker, lets all enjoy this again. 

 

[Teedy Kay]

25 minutes ago, Nostalgia Nonce said:

Did you not hear about the Joshua Savage case last year?

All police officers carry a secret knife, just in case they have to cut someone's seatbelt and rescue them. 

Was that his reason for having that knife? Fuck me no wonder he got booted.

[Ronnie]

33 minutes ago, Teedy Kay said:

Stats on Blacks being proportionately more likely to be victims of knife crime, haven't got a computer by me sadly, I keep shit tonnes on my work lappy. I'm sure it was a Mayor of London study (MOPAC) which used David Lammy's findings it was a couple of years ago like, but post 2015 I'm sure. From memory the percentage of non domestic abuse knife crime victims that were black was in the 60s per cent wise.

I thought it was a strange point to pick you up on. I suppose you said "in this country" rather than "in London", where it's not news that black people are disproportionately the victims of murder (44% of deaths for 13% of the population), the most common cause being stabbing (90 of 149 homicides in 2019).

[Chest Rockwell]

38 minutes ago, Teedy Kay said:

 

I don't conflate race and class, but I do contrast. I'm not holding up one higher than the other either, both have serious connotations to the state our country is in. I do think comparison can be made in certain times on certain issues, and it amazes me that those who are white in Socioeconomic disparity aren't standing up in these times, instead they appear to be a driving Force in the opposite direction, mainly due to systemic racism in areas like the media. 

I appreciate getting your point of view and I am glad you like to think about the bigger picture. However, right now the current discussion is about race. So if you can't do that without talking around it broadly and 'contrasting' it with class issues then it looks like you are being willfully ignorant and wanting to avoid discussing the race issue specifically. You should only be comparing and contrasting to class where the comparison serves a specific purpose with relation to the current discussion, which is one about race. And if you do that you should be explicitly stating that purpose and the intent.

Hopefully this is helpful in terms of how your points come across.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Chest Rockwell

[SuperBacon]

1 hour ago, Teedy Kay said:

It's why so early on in this thread I attempted to get points on Use of Force, SuperBacon obviously doesn't want to engage, but if he did and gave examples hopefully I could be that one copper that's helped. It's where it goes back to the point on relations hurt totally beyond the control of police, I don't think that. But I certainly think it works both ways.

But you didn't back up your argument.

You're a police officer and you made a massive sweeping statement at a time when there is do much to the contradiction of that happening right now.

It shouldn't be up to me to give you reasons; if you as a police officer, believe that the use of force in this country is spot on, then you back it up, not me.

That's the frustration. You made the point, then made no attempt to justify it whatsoever.

 

[Teedy Kay]

Why didn't you ask.

In a year where there were 18 and a half thousand armed deployments in the UK (armed with firearms, not Taser only) of those deployments there were only four fatal shootings, three of which were terrorist related.

Taser was 'used' 11,000 times in one year, and although that sounds high, the actual discharge of Taser was 17 per cent of that, with Officers getting resolution through other means of Taser use, IE red dotting to gain neutralisation. Although Taser use is going up, discharge is going down, which is great. The pushing of Taser not being used as a compliance tool is also of astounding benefit to not only police but potential victims. I think Taser use would fall off a cliff if more Police were armed, but I don't want that to happen.

Batons are getting used less because of Taser which is great as it results in less injuries and potential deaths, irritant spray is also seeing a decrease, again as its a stronger use force than Taser. Sadly the above may be the only option for some police, but that could be changing.

The developments in Force against vulnerable people is showing amazing work, such things as Focal Aware Seizures are more in the mindset than ever where previously had potential to be mistaken for drunkenness or being high. I've already mentioned the awareness of ABD which is a fucking killer, and with synthetic drug use at an all time high the likelihood of ABD is also at a high, and developments in techniques for restraint have been excellent. There's a wonderful video out there somewhere of a lad on Alman where police 'restrain' him for approx an hour by holding legs and wrists until sedative can be used. Amazing work from all officers involved, one of which I used to train.

The recognised model for decision making, after a few alternatives is probably at it's finest. And you need to be cast iron straight to that model for your Force to justified.

IOPC and their alternatives continue to hold the Police to account, I think the organisation goes too far sometimes, and their investigations take WAY too long, but they serve the public well.

Amnesty International have played their part too, especially in Taser and are happy with a lot of the work that has been made, I've been present at Amnesty International talks to Police and the relationship is strong. Oliver Feeley-Sprague at times speaks a lot of sense 

I am concerned about Brexit and the potential disbanding of ECHR as it plays a massive part in Use of Force in this country. But I can't see us going backwards in that respect. I fucking hope not anyway, accountability through ECHR is fairly big, and getting rid of accountability is worrying.

Are there errors? Of course there are but the massive point is whenever shit happens we take on board development points and develope. Can we get better? We strive for it, with the knowledge we'll never be perfect but as far as use of force goes as a Nation, compared to so many, I think we have it spot on.

Did an online course on Spithoods recently that I wasn't overly happy with, but I'm not in a position to get spat at on a daily basis thankfully, so I'm just not use to that environment.

But yeah, fuck tha police fuck fuck fuck tha police 

[SuperBacon]

13 minutes ago, Teedy Kay said:

Are there errors? Of course there are but the massive point is whenever shit happens we take on board development points and develope. Can we get better?

I just think this is the biggest load of bollocks ever, and fair enough you've knocked up a post to try and defend your profession which is understandable, but your last sentence shows that you don't really take this seriously, fail to see why people have massive issues with the police and I can't be fucked anymore.

Good luck to you though.

[Surf Digby]

1 hour ago, Teedy Kay said:

Was that his reason for having that knife? Fuck me no wonder he got booted.

His reason was accepted as valid. That was his defence in Court for the charge of possessing a bladed article, and he was found not guilty.

He did however get himself a gross misconduct from his own force as they're specifically prohibited from carrying non-force issued weapons.

Apparently saying "Yeah, we all carry them" in Court (under oath, obviously) wasn't appreciated by his colleagues.

On the plus side, I now have a valid reason for carrying a knife in public at all times.

[Hannibal Scorch]

1 hour ago, SuperBacon said:

But you didn't back up your argument.

You're a police officer and you made a massive sweeping statement at a time when there is do much to the contradiction of that happening right now.

It shouldn't be up to me to give you reasons; if you as a police officer, believe that the use of force in this country is spot on, then you back it up, not me.

That's the frustration. You made the point, then made no attempt to justify it whatsoever.

 

Didn’t you call all police cunts this morning?

[Devon Malcolm]

2 hours ago, Teedy Kay said:

1500 deaths in custody, it's estimated and I'll round it down a fair bit, 75% of deaths were suicides. A percentage of the deaths were suicides AFTER release

Your emphasis of 'after' here really troubles me far more than anything else you've said on this subject and I'm surprised nobody else has picked up on it since youposted. And I'm not going to elaborate on why because nothing you have said in this thread suggests to me that you will understand why it's so troubling anyway. I just hope that one day you do get it.

[Chris B]

Just now, Devon Malcolm said:

Your emphasis of 'after' here really troubles me far more than anything else you've said on this subject and I'm surprised nobody else has picked up on it since youposted. And I'm not going to elaborate on why because nothing you have said in this thread suggests to me that you will understand why it's so troubling anyway. I just hope that one day you do get it.

I'm curious as to what you're getting at here. Sounds like it's something that should be obvious that I've just not picked up on.

[SuperBacon]

39 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Didn’t you call all police cunts this morning?

Yes, and I stand by that. 

Edit: Actually, was bastards, but they're cunts as well.

Edited June 10, 2020 by SuperBacon