UK Kat Von D Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Jericho once pushed Charles Robinson when he needed to call an audible after Neville got hurt, that’s the limit when it comes to involving a ref physically when a match hasn’t gone to plan. There was a legitimate reason and I assume they are mates so Robinson knew he wasn’t in danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Nostalgia Nonce said: You don't bump a ref unless they know you're going to bump them, the same as with anyone else involved with a show. Grand stuff, so Sha should've called the audible to make sure instead of just going ahead with it. "Are you okay to take a slam right now?" and the ref indicates yes or no. It's very possible Sha just said "Bodyslam" and didn't wait for any consent, or just did it without letting him know. It's definitely a misjudgement on his part, where a worked punch or worked headbutt could've got across the same point without a bump. Edited September 20, 2019 by Accident Prone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPumaPants Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Whether he called it on the spot, had a 5 minute sit down and spoke about it before hand, or did it wildly with no communication, the fact remains that it was needless and pointless. It simply didn't need to happen. What did it add to the situation that helped or covered for the botched finish? Sha and Bodom come out looking like they can beat up a ref for no reason. If they were supposed to come out of the match looking strong, beating up the ref on a whim isn't the way to do it. There were two other perfectly qualified and probably more willing participants who could have been involved instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPumaPants Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Accident Prone said: Grand stuff, so Sha should've called the audible to make sure instead of just going ahead with it. "Are you okay to take a slam right now?" and the ref indicates yes or no. Sorry for the double post, but absolutely. As said above, Jericho pushed Charles Robinson and made him aware of PAC being injured. If the message didn't get across, you think Jericho would have just bodyslammed him? How about back him into a corner, safely, and make your point? It's a little known fact that wrestlers are quite good at talking to each other in the ring, to let each other know what's going to happen. Sha could have made sure the ref was good to go, and it appears he didn't. That's not ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted September 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2019 Rev Pro (somewhat quietly) uploaded the show last night, and they seem to have edited out fuck all. Â Sha just leaps into the ring and slams the ref, I can't see any moment where they could've have had any real communication. Even if he did quickly let him know, the ref clearly (and rightly) isn't cooperating and wasn't even ready. That's not the way I was taught to take or perform a bodyslam, that's for sure. You can see Bodom attack the ref too, although through a weird angle looking up at Fletcher. When it cuts to the hardcam, Bodom is still stomping away and delivers a kick that is clearly to the head if you've seen the other footage. What a mess. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TildeGuy~! Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I thought Bodom didn’t kick out? Doesn’t he get his shoulder up at 2 there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamaras-Tash Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Aye the ref well and truly fucked that up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dart Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Even if he did that doesn’t excuse what they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted September 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2019 Someone is utterly desperate to be right for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TildeGuy~! Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) I’m not trying to prove I’m right here, I’m just saying what I saw. A lot of people’s argument were that the referee should call the match like a shoot which is why the match ended like it did which is fair enough but he clearly kicks out at 2. I’m commenting on the match ending, this has nothing to do with my opinion on the referee’s twitter feed. Edited September 20, 2019 by TildeGuy~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted September 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2019 I thought he kicked out too. I've looked back on it in slow motion and it's really hard, partially because of how blocky it is, to decide. He certainly starts the motion of lifting his arm before the count hits, although the point when his shoulder physically leaves the mat maybe perfectly coincides. Given that the act of kicking out is really the start of the motion of kicking out from the fans' perspective, it does look early. At any rate, it's far too tight for the ref to be able to confidently call it, as the reactions from all four participants plus the fans (there's the fading 'three-ooh' that you get on a false finish) suggest. The video also puts to bed any doubt about the assault, doesn't it? Samuels appears to jump the ring in temper and dump the referee into the mat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 9 hours ago, LWOLeN said: Protecting the other is the fine line between real and fake violence. That’s not really true. You can punch someone in the face repeatedly while holding them up to make sure they don’t fall and smash their head open. Protecting someone a bit as part of an assault does not negate the rest of the assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2019 Bodom kicks out pretty much on the three, but after Aaren's hand hits the mat. You could go either way with that, but as a referee it's constantly drilled into you that you call the match as a shoot. If I were in that position, I'd have likely called that as the finish - if it had been Bodom on top, knowing his team weren't booked to win, I'd maybe use a judgement call and say that it was an exceptionally close two. As for people talking about how Aaren should have been prepared or whatever - Aaren's trained, he knows how to bump, and has taken ref bumps on other shows. There's a big difference between taking an agreed ref bump in cooperation with the wrestler, and getting hoisted up and slammed by a bloke twice your size when you're not expecting it and not prepared. In very simple terms - I took a ref bump on Friday from an errant clothesline, in the show's main event, that the guys only decided they were doing moments before the match. During the second wrestler's entrance in the main event, the first wrestler ran it by me, and I agreed to it. It was two guys I know and trust, and the spot made sense, and wasn't endangering me. It would have been a very different situation if a wrestler I don't know just clobbered me out of the blue because he felt the match called for it.  In terms of improv, if I was the promoter, I'd have been pissed off at Sha "improvising" a bodyslam on the referee anyway. It's not his call to make. The main event of that show featured, if I remember correctly, three separate ref bumps, playing into a long-running angle. It shits on the credibility of the referees, and on the drama of the main event, if you're also doing zero (kayfabe) consequence ref bumps in a midcard match before that. Just like you wouldn't do a main event wrestler's finish in the opener, you shouldn't repeat key main event spots in the midcard. That's far from good improv skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 20, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2019 The ref called the match with the right result. The only thing wrong was it wasn't the right finish. Sha's bodyslam was weak and while I don't agree with doing something without consent, he protects the ref. Bodom on the other hand is acting like he's had too many bottles of Hooch and a kebab on the way home from the pub. Absolute thuggery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted September 20, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Accident Prone said: Grand stuff, so Sha should've called the audible to make sure instead of just going ahead with it. "Are you okay to take a slam right now?" and the ref indicates yes or no. 100% yes. Call it beforehand and make sure he agrees. It's not hard, half of everything out there is called. I know this from doing it for 12 years. During a tag match once, somebody on the outside grabbed me and said 'piledriver?' to which I replied 'fuck off!', so it didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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